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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 18 of 657 (579915)
09-06-2010 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
09-06-2010 2:56 PM


Re: Bump for Buz
Have you seen Buz present any evidence?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-06-2010 2:56 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 104 of 657 (593041)
11-23-2010 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Buzsaw
09-16-2010 8:20 PM


Buz, where's the evidence
I just went through all of your posts on this thread and there was no evidence. Can you provide any evidence, other than your good book, that the exodus story has any basis in historical fact.

How about you just make a bullet point post listing each piece of evidence. That way I will know what you think is a piece of evidence. A lot of times you make a long post and then claim you presented evidence.

So, how about a bullet list of all the pieces of evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Buzsaw, posted 09-16-2010 8:20 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 113 of 657 (598962)
01-04-2011 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Coragyps
01-04-2011 12:02 PM


Re: Artifact Evidence, Etc
And digging thousands of holes for poop

Over 40 years that would be millions of holes.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 115 of 657 (598978)
01-04-2011 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2011 1:44 PM


You got any evidence for that assertion!?

So you think it would be thousands of holes?

And no it is not an assertion. I am doing a simple thought exercise on something that there is no evidence for even happening. How can I present evidence for something that is fanciful to begin with.

Are you asking how did I arrive at millions of holes? If so ask me that question. There is no evidence because there is no evidence the Exodus even happened.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 118 of 657 (599011)
01-04-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by New Cat's Eye
01-04-2011 3:24 PM


All right you got me.

Poe's law lives and is confirmed again.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 163 of 657 (599297)
01-06-2011 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Percy
01-06-2011 12:22 PM


There's the rub
it might be better to just enumerate the scientific support for them, if any.

All Buz has is Wyatt's extraordinary claims. I might as well as claim that I have found the Ark of the Covenant here in Wisconsin. I can even supply photographs if anyone wants evidence. That is the quality of the "evidence" Buz has supplied. His claims of corroboration are other extraordinary claims by Wyatt.
For corroboration of my claim, I can show photos of the Ten Commandments too. They are a little grainy and didn't come out well, but trust me it is the actual Ark and the actual Tablet of the 14 commandments(the bible seems to have left some out).


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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 Message 162 by Percy, posted 01-06-2011 12:22 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 167 of 657 (599302)
01-06-2011 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Buzsaw
01-06-2011 12:46 PM


Re: Wyatt Only The Pioneer Explorer
But Lennart Moller, Swedish marine biologist scientist

Bullshit. Dr. Moller has no training or expertise in archaeology or anything marine related.

quote:
He is a research scientist in the field of medicine and DNA-research. Dr. Möller has studied a number of subjects (limnology, marine biology, toxicology, chemistry) at the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm and has a doctors degree in medicine from the Karolinska Institutet (KI).

Info from the website for Exodus Case

We have debunked Moller and his crap before. Do you want to rehash this? I can certainly dig everything up again.

Moller's purpose was not to self promote and make spectacular announcements.

And you know this how? Because he is a good Christian? Do you ever provide evidence for assertions?

It is amazing how you fundies and creos are so willing to push this guys crap just be cause he has Dr. in front of his name. He is a Dr of medicine. That makes him no more qualified to write a book about archaeology than I am.

There was also a woman scientist named in the Video (forgot name) who did some research on the Saudi side of the crossing, also considering the discovery to be valid.

Oh yeah that cinches it. What field is she a scientist in? Botany?

Some of the dates have been questioned and debated due to the tendency of Pharaohs to skew the dates and obliterate info which might damage their own reputation. It also behooved Egypt to conceal, as much as possible, the devastation of Egypt's defense military so as not to embolden enemy nations to attack.

How about looking up these words.
Assertion.
Evidence.

Do you truly not know what evidence is?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 180 of 657 (599385)
01-06-2011 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Buzsaw
01-06-2011 8:48 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
One problem with research in the region is that the Islamic Saudi Arabia has a vested interest in undermining the Biblical record.

Another assertion. Any evidence?

Why would the Saudi's have a vested interest in undermining the biblical record. Do you know anything about Islam?t Any idea how the Islamic religion feels about Moses? You might want to learn something about the subject.

I believe it would not be legal to remove artifacts from the sea floor due to the Egyptians and Saudis but am not sure how that works or who has sovereignty over the sea borders.

In other words you know nothing about the subject and you are talking out of your ass.

One problem with removing the wheel evidence would be keeping it intact for removal and analysis.

Ever hear of underwater archaeology? There are professionals that do this. Not scam artists like Wyatt and Moller.

I noticed you never responded to the posts showing you that your representation of Moller's qualifications was a lie.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 188 of 657 (599395)
01-07-2011 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Buzsaw
01-06-2011 10:49 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
I know a whole lot about Islam. I have a copy of the Koran and am aware of what it says. I also have other books as well as the Internet from which I've acquired some knowledge.

I know that the Bibles have been confiscated in Saudi Arabia.

You do know that Moses is a major prophet in Islam don't you?

For Islamists to ascribe to the Biblical exodus, would be for them to legitimize the nation of Israel.

Please 'splain your reasoning here.
After all, Biblically, Jehovah promised the land of Canaan to the Jews forever. No?

Actually he promised it to the Israelites. I think an argument could be made that they were not Jews yet.

But this story is all in the Quran. Even the idea that God(Allah) promised canaanite to the Israelites. So why would they want to discredit a story that is in their holy book?

I have a copy of the Koran and am aware of what it says.

Evidently not. You might try actually reading it.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 212 of 657 (602467)
01-28-2011 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Buzsaw
01-24-2011 11:49 PM


Re: Which Sinai
The depth of the sea near the traditional Sinai is no where near as shallow as Nuweiba.

Please show us this shallow crossing at Nuweiba.

Here is a christian site that presents a very comprehensive refutation for Nuweiba.

quote:
They claim: "Only here, on the shores of Nuweiba, does the 'pathway' drop off at a gradual slope of one in fourteen, to a depth of just over 850 meters. On the Saudi side the slope climbs again at a slope of one in ten." Of course the suggested slop is ridiculous since 1/12 is the building code for wheel chair ramps. To descend to the 765m level at 1/12 slope would take 9 km (765m x 12). But that only takes you to the bottom and the actual deep trough is only 5 km wide. The data to produce the above contour maps were obtained by using a small portable fish finder "Simrad CE32" that has a max depth of 800m according to the owners manual. The actual depth that can be relied upon is much less, given the downward beam is 45 degree angle wide. The manual says that to reach 800 m: "use the 50 kHz for searching in a wider area, determining bottom conditions and going the deepest. The transmitter has a wide transmitter beam with a 45° opening." So they plot 850 meters which is 50m past what the equipment is rated for and the beam is far too wide to gain any valuable slope data. What do you expect from a home fish finder?

According to the British admiralty nautical depth chart 12, the land bridge is not flat as misrepresented above. In fact the depths, starting with the Egypt side, are 0m, 263m, 765m, 285m, 0m. This means that as they started crossing, they were at sea level (0m) then had to drop down immediately to 263 m, then continue for 5 km. Next, as they pass the 5 km mark, they drop down to a valley that is 765 m deep. This valley is 2.5 km down and 2.5 km back up again. and back up again. Next it rises again to the 285 meter level for 5 more km until you rise to sea level on the opposite shore in modern Saudi Arabia. The valley is 1500 feet deep. The CN tower is the tallest building in the world and is only 553m tall. This means that if we placed the CN tower at the deepest spot of 765m, the top of the CN tower would about even with the first 263 m shelf. So they would have to climb down the height of the CN tower in 2.5km to the bottom, then back up the height of the tower again in 2.5 km. That is quite an steep angle to walk down then back up again. The actual slope is 2.5 km to reach a depth of 765m according to British admiralty nautical depth chart 12. 2500m/765 = 1/3.3 slope, which is a 17 degree incline. This assumes a perfect condition slope, when in fact there are likely huge drop off points.



Source

Any idea how deep 765 meters is?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 274 of 657 (602719)
01-31-2011 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Buzsaw
01-28-2011 8:29 PM


Re: Reviewing The Evidence
Certainly, Saudi Arabia would have a vested interest in avoiding the Exodus, favorable to the Jews and all else relative to the Old Testament scriptures which were favorable to the Jews and unfavorable to the Islamic nations.

This is so ridiculous I have to respond.
How is the Exodus story unfavorable to the Islamic nations? Because the Israleites supposedly out witted and destroyed the egyptians in it. You do realize that the Egyptians were not islamic and were not even arab.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Buzsaw, posted 01-28-2011 8:29 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 275 of 657 (602720)
01-31-2011 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Buzsaw
01-30-2011 10:09 PM


Re: Who's Summary?
Just a marine scientist's techy underwater photographs and videos of wheel and axle shaped corral crusted forms, again at the right place in the row of ducks.

Who is this marine scientist? Can you show us these "techy" photos?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 313 of 657 (602956)
02-01-2011 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Theodoric
01-31-2011 10:13 AM


Bump for Buz
Any chance you are going to answer this? Maybe provide some evidence for your claims?

Theodoric writes:

Just a marine scientist's techy underwater photographs and videos of wheel and axle shaped corral crusted forms, again at the right place in the row of ducks.

Who is this marine scientist? Can you show us these "techy" photos?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 317 of 657 (602972)
02-01-2011 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 10:43 PM


Re: Bump for Buz
Lennart Moller of Sweden is all over the thread and there is some of his photography as well

He is not a marine scientist and he has produced no "techy" photos. Matter of fact there are no "techy" photos anywhere.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 501 of 657 (612525)
04-16-2011 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Tram law
04-16-2011 3:49 PM


Does some of these claims count as evidence?

Evidence for what? Exodus?

They are now forced to admit that Israel was already in Canaan at the time of Merneptah. Israel was big and strong enough to challenge Egypt in battle.

Why?

quote:
While the other defeated Egyptian enemies listed besides Israel in this document such as Ashkelon, Gezer and Yanoam were given the determinative for a city-state—"a throw stick plus three mountains designating a foreign country"—the hieroglyphs that refer to Israel instead employ the determinative sign used for foreign peoples: a throw stick plus a man and a woman over three vertical plural lines. This sign is typically used by the Egyptians to signify nomadic tribes without a fixed city-state, thus implying that ysrỉꜣr "Israel" was the demonym for a seminomadic or rural population at the time the stele was created

Source

There are also some alternative translations of this stele.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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