Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?

But there is no waterway in the image YOU linked to. Look at the rocks. They are not water rounded, they are flakes, chips, what you get from wind and temperature erosion. Corroboration for what? That they are common formations found all over the world?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Have you read this thread Buz?Let's start with Message 25 and then Message 28 and then Message 36 and then again in Message 40. Those should do as starters. Good grief Buz. If the Romans could do anything at all, they could and did build roads. Everywhere. Ethiopia and Yemen were major sources for some spices and also gold.Aqaba was a major port as well as a central distribution location.For some basic information on Roman Roads east of the Jordan, start here.also...

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Aqaba has been an inhabited settlement since 4000 BC profiting from its strategic location at the junction of trading routes between Asia, Africa, and Europe. The early settlement was presumably Edomite in ancient times. It was a center of the Edomites, and then of the Arab Nabataeans, during the first century B.C. who populated the region extensively.

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from Wiki.You do realize that places Aqaba as a major city at the time of Adam don't you? I've been trying to do that here at EvC for many years, I'll admit it looks like without much luck.The civilizations in the area go back even before the Hebrews were a people. Who did you think the Medians and Edomites andAnd Buz, so far I have seen no evidence that there even is some significant Nuweiba Beach.Maybe that is still in the evidence you plan on presenting.The whole area was under Egyptian control at the time of the supposed Biblical Exodus. Since then, there were many Roman constructions in the area and there is NO reason to suppose that any columns, buildings or artifacts are related to the Biblical Exodus myth.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Are you kidding Buz. Look at the topography of Italy or Greece. Have you ever heard of the Alps? What is in that picture that would present even a new challenge to the Romans?Have you seen Petra? It was important because it was a major trading hub and it is in even more forbidding territory.In fact the modern highway 5 follows much of the old Roman road.AbE: I thought a few maps that shows the extent of the Roman Empire might help understanding that nothing along the Gulf of Aqaba presented a major challenge to the Romans in building roads. The first shows the extent of the Roman Empire over several periods. As you can see, there are no mountains comparable to the Alps, the Apennines, the Caucuses or the Atlas mountains in the Arabian Peninsula. The second shows the developed areas in green between about 300BCE and 700CE.Edited by jar, : add a couple maps.Edited by jar, : can't even spal AbE: currkly

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Just a side-note on Buz's source, The New World Encyclopedia.

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Our Approach and Worldview

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This project transcends the metaphysical assumptions of both the Enlightenment and Modern Encyclopedias.

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The originator of this project is Sun Myung Moon. NWE editors are guided by scholarly texts expressing the theological and philosophical systematization of his life and teachings, the universal values and ideals inherent in the great religions, philosophies, and teachings of conscience, and the core principles of the Universal Peace Federation.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Well let's add up the "corroborating evidence" presented so far.Altar of the Golden Calf? Nope. No altar, no golden calf, no calf at all, just misrepresented and doctored evidence.Chariot wheels? Nope, no chariot wheels.Rock with signs of water stream? Nope. Just pretty common split rock and NO signs of water erosion but lots of evidence of chemical and temperature flaking.So exactly where is all the corroborating evidence Buz?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Are you seriously saying that the Romans that built roads through the Alps, through the Atlas Mountains, through the Pyrenees, the Caucuses and the Apennines couldn't build a road through the little hills found in Saudi Arabia?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Your OWN cite shows that the Midianites ruled both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba and much of the Sinai.Your own cite refutes you Buz.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Actually, what is debatable is whether or not there ever was something called Mount Sinai. On the other hand, the mountains of Sinai makes a lot of sense and it would most definitely be those hills on the peninsula and not anything in what is today Saudi Arabia.So, still waiting for any evidence that there ever was an Exodus or that the Gulf of Aqaba is in any way relevant.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Buz, Exodus 14 just continues the pattern I mentioned earlier; the story teller creating crises just to keep the audience interested and providing shelter and food.BUT, there is NOTHING in it that suggests there are geological features holding the Israelites up. In fact it totally refutes the idea that it was geography slowing them down, rather it is God that steps in and tells them to stop and wait for Pharaoh.

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1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 "Tell the Israelites to turn back and encamp near Pi Hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea. They are to encamp by the sea, directly opposite Baal Zephon. 3 Pharaoh will think, 'The Israelites are wandering around the land in confusion, hemmed in by the desert.' 4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.

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5 When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his officials changed their minds about them and said, "What have we done? We have let the Israelites go and have lost their services!" 6 So he had his chariot made ready and took his army with him. 7 He took six hundred of the best chariots, along with all the other chariots of Egypt, with officers over all of them. 8 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly. 9 The Egyptiansall Pharaoh's horses and chariots, horsemen and troopspursued the Israelites and overtook them as they camped by the sea near Pi Hahiroth, opposite Baal Zephon.

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It is yet more evidence that the story is a serial fiction designed to keep the story teller over an extended stay.Edited by jar, : teh applin spallinEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Buz, do you have any idea where the Nuweiba beach is or the terrain involved in getting there? There is this thing called Google Maps and guess what, you can actually look at them.
View Larger MapEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Which also pretty much refutes the idea that they were at Nuweiba beach.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Actually, if the Biblical Exodus myth were factual, it would be the largest city in the Middle East, something that would most certainly leave behind evidence. Even by the time of Jesus Jerusalem only had a population of about 80,000 maximum. According to the Biblical myth the Israelites numbered over ten times that number in men only, not including women, children, elderly and non-Israelites.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

You totally miss the point Buz.Yes, look at the terrain.The Nuweiba beach is not even close to what is described in the story.Edited by jar, : cant spall teh

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

When thinking about the likelihood of the Exodus, it's a good idea to also think about the history of the region. For example, the region around the Gulf of Aqaba and the city that today is called Eilat in Israel has been important since at least the 7^th. Millennium BC. It was a major shipping port for essentials like copper (perhaps the oldest copper mine yet known) and there are extensive tombs and structures still remaining. It was also a transfer point for trade in the incense products of Myrrh and Frankincense from Yemen and Ethiopia, Salt from the Dead Sea and linens and cedar from Biblos. The area was critical to Egypt, the Phoenicians, as well as the Midians, Edomites, the Rephidim who were the indigenous peoples of the Sinai {it's worth noting that the supposed 'Rock of Horab' is located in Rephidim} and the people of what today is Yemen and Ethiopia.The Gulf of Aqaba, far from being a wasteland, was a heavily traveled commerce highway, far deeper than the Gulf of Sinai and relatively narrow, sheltered.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Yes, Eliat is at the northeastern end of the Gulf of Aqaba, Yemen and Ethiopia are at the southwest end of the Red Sea.Now about highways. At the time of the supposed Exodus, the Gulf of Aqaba itself was the highway. There was constant traffic up and down the whole length of the Red Sea as well as the Gulf of Aqaba.It is only much later that the Romans built the physical roads, and they were the most likely sources for the marble columns that Wyatt claims he found.The importance of all this involves the Google Map I provided you. If you use the map you can even click on the terrain button and see the terrain. Well so far the only evidence you have presented is the Biblical verses and they tell us that the site is NOT Nuweiba beach.Here is how the story goes. In Exodus 13 the Israelites get up and leave. They don't go through Philistine (a folk that didn't even exist at the time) territory but through the desert.So let's try to follow the story.
View Larger MapNow what can we say for sure.We know that there were major trading center in the area, a port and even a canal from Suez to the Nile and a second at Eilat.Egypt controlled the areas along the Mediterranean Sea as well as the canal and port at Suez.The area between Suez and the Med is relatively flat and unpopulated and there is a chain of lakes (sometimes dry) extending north from Suez to almost the Med itself.Exodus 13 begins the journey.

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17 When Pharaoh let the people go, God did not lead them on the road through the Philistine country, though that was shorter. For God said, "If they face war, they might change their minds and return to Egypt." 18 So God led the people around by the desert road toward the Red Sea. The Israelites went up out of Egypt armed for battle.

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19 Moses took the bones of Joseph with him because Joseph had made the sons of Israel swear an oath. He had said, "God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up with you from this place."

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20 After leaving Succoth they camped at Etham on the edge of the desert. 21 By day the LORD went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, so that they could travel by day or night. 22 Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.

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Succoth is thought to be in the eastern Nile Delta and according to the story they only travel to the edge of the desert.So...according to the story they do not go along the Mediterranean, they leave the eastern Nile Delta and go to the edge of the desert.Look again at the map.That places them in the relatively flat terrain between Suez and the Mediterranean, and the only bodies of water in that area are the chain of lakes. But there is no mention of any wadi in the story, no mention of a valley.Now let's follow along with the fable.Exodus 14 starts with the Pharaoh noticing a few million folk left after he told them to leave and God steps in again to harden Pharaoh's heart and he realizes that he just lost all his workforce (ignore the fact that the story started with him deciding to kill all the workforce anyway).

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1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 "Tell the Israelites to turn back and encamp near Pi Hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea. They are to encamp by the sea, directly opposite Baal Zephon. 3 Pharaoh will think, 'The Israelites are wandering around the land in confusion, hemmed in by the desert.' 4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and he will pursue them. But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD." So the Israelites did this.

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5 When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his officials changed their minds about them and said, "What have we done? We have let the Israelites go and have lost their services!" 6 So he had his chariot made ready and took his army with him. 7 He took six hundred of the best chariots, along with all the other chariots of Egypt, with officers over all of them. 8 The LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, so that he pursued the Israelites, who were marching out boldly. 9 The Egyptiansall Pharaoh's horses and chariots, horsemen and troopspursued the Israelites and overtook them as they camped by the sea near Pi Hahiroth, opposite Baal Zephon.

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10 As Pharaoh approached, the Israelites looked up, and there were the Egyptians, marching after them. They were terrified and cried out to the LORD. 11 They said to Moses, "Was it because there were no graves in Egypt that you brought us to the desert to die? What have you done to us by bringing us out of Egypt? 12 Didn't we say to you in Egypt, 'Leave us alone; let us serve the Egyptians'? It would have been better for us to serve the Egyptians than to die in the desert!"

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Again, there is no mention of valleys or wadis or anything except the desert and the water.
BUT...it is an area where chariots would be an efficient fighting force; they are in flat, open terrain.Go back and look at the map again.Key points:

• this is shortly after leaving
• it is flat terrain
• there is a water barrier
• the only reason the Israelites stop is because god tells them to stop so that god can once again play hero

Based on the storyline and the physical evidence they are NOT at the Nuweiba beach.