|
Author
|
Topic: Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
Message 466 of 657 (611609)
04-09-2011 9:08 AM
|
Reply to: Message 465 by Buzsaw
04-09-2011 9:00 AM
|
|
Misrepresentation
Buzsaw writes:
Hi Ludwik. Welcome to EvC. We're honored to have members of your academic stature aboard. I hope you will find time to continue with us. Have you read the whole thread objectively? Personally I think you need to become objectively (I say objectively) aware of the physical evidence cited in this thread; all of it corroboratively. It doesn't take much evidence to convince secularists of, say, multi-verses and abiogenesis. On the other hand no amount of evidence will ever convince avowed secularists of anything involving the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah. Buz, you continue to misrepresent the facts. First, secularism is totally irrelevant to this thread and as you well know it is not just secularists that point out that you have presented NO evidence in this thread supportive of any exodus. If there is. perhaps you can provide a link to a post that actually has some evidence. Edited by jar, : ask for links
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 465 by Buzsaw, posted 04-09-2011 9:00 AM | | Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 479 of 657 (612045)
04-12-2011 8:03 PM
|
Reply to: Message 478 by MiguelG
04-12-2011 8:02 PM
|
|
hidden middens
MiguelG writes:
If we can still find middens today from that era or older, why shouldn't we expect to find middens left by an enormous concentration of people? Middens aren't latrines by the way. They are piles of refuse and can contain anything from shucked oyster shells to broken artifacts and the other expected detritus of any group of people concentrated in one area. In fact middens are a favorite because they tell so much about a peoples.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 478 by MiguelG, posted 04-12-2011 8:02 PM | | MiguelG has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Also there is no indication that Israel was big or strong or a nation. Canaan and the other folk mentioned (and it is actually just a couple lines at the end, almost an after thought) are all just little city states ruled by a minor war lord. In addition it is not from the same time as the Exodus.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 501 by Theodoric, posted 04-16-2011 4:38 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 514 of 657 (612583)
04-17-2011 11:06 AM
|
Reply to: Message 513 by Buzsaw
04-17-2011 10:48 AM
|
|
Evidence Buz, where is the evidence?
Buz writes: The delta sandbar is not purely hypothetical. Fine. Where is the evidence of the delta sandbar?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 513 by Buzsaw, posted 04-17-2011 10:48 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 515 by Buzsaw, posted 04-17-2011 11:28 AM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 517 of 657 (612590)
04-17-2011 11:34 AM
|
Reply to: Message 515 by Buzsaw
04-17-2011 11:28 AM
|
|
Re: Evidence Buz, where is the evidence?
Buzsaw writes: jar writes: Buz writes: The delta sandbar is not purely hypothetical. Fine. Where is the evidence of the delta sandbar? I've explained my position on that count. What have you got for refutation? Give it your best shot. You're a man of many repetious questions and few edifying responses. I'm not asking for your position which I quoted above. I have that, you said "The delta sandbar is not purely hypothetical." If it is not purely hypothetical then there must be some evidence that it was there, for example a study showing that the origin of sand someplace else was originally located at your fantasied crossing spot. Where is the evidence Buz. Do you EVER plan on presenting any evidence of just continue to post made up shit? You made a claim Buz, you claimed it is not "purely hypothetical". Now back your claim up or admit that once again you have NO EVIDENCE!
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 515 by Buzsaw, posted 04-17-2011 11:28 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Buzsaw Evidence Recapped
OliverChant writes: Do you know the desert is constantly moving ,ever seen a sandstorm everything disappears..omg(btw I'M 14 years old and I answered that for you!) Yet we still find evidence even in deserts.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 538 of 657 (613087)
04-21-2011 2:34 PM
|
Reply to: Message 533 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 11:34 AM
|
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes:
The Biblical account of the Exodus event, according to Usher, happened about a thousand years after the Noaic flood. My position is that the Noaic flood formed Nuweiba delta. Given the very small amount of water which the wadi would have afforded, it makes sense that it was relatively suddenly formed by some catastrophe. The flood would have deposited large material nearest to the Egyptian side of Aqaba and the finer sediment would have protruded out into the gulf. The far end of the delta would have not been hardened in a mere millennium.
The Biblical Flood has been absolutely refuted and so trying to use that as yet another unsupported assertion is just plain silly. Now, is there any evidence that there was a sand bar at that location?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 533 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 11:34 AM | | Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 540 of 657 (613102)
04-21-2011 3:34 PM
|
Reply to: Message 539 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 3:30 PM
|
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes: LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta. What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 539 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 3:30 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 544 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:11 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 545 of 657 (613124)
04-21-2011 7:18 PM
|
Reply to: Message 544 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:11 PM
|
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes: jar writes: Buzsaw writes: LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta. What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"? The evidence happens to be, partially, in your [msg=580901]. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi. Sorry but where is the evidence that it was formed by a catastrophe? And remember you cannot use the Biblical Flood since that did not happen.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 544 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:11 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 546 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:32 PM | | jar has replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 548 of 657 (613127)
04-21-2011 7:40 PM
|
Reply to: Message 546 by Buzsaw
04-21-2011 7:32 PM
|
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Buzsaw writes: jar writes: Buzsaw writes: jar writes: Buzsaw writes: LOL. Apparently, some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta. What evidence do you have that "some catastrophe created the fan shaped delta"? The evidence happens to be, partially, in your [msg=580901]. This shows that Nuweiba is a delta. However, the insignificant flow of the wadi is evident that the delta was likely formed catastrophically and not by the wadi. Sorry but where is the evidence that it was formed by a catastrophe? And remember you cannot use the Biblical Flood since that did not happen. Some credentialed scientists would take issue with you on that count. I see Nuweiba as supportive to the catastrophic Biblical flood, more so than to a relative uniformitarion view. It is irrelevant if they disagree, it is a fact and they would simply be wrong. BUT...evidence Buz, evidence. Where is the evidence that it was from a catastrophic event? Evidence Buz. Evidence. Honestly Buz you cannot even produce a model that the Flood would cause that. Evidence. AbE: and your imaginary sand bar evidence as well. Evidence Buz. Edited by jar, : AbE:
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 546 by Buzsaw, posted 04-21-2011 7:32 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Theodoric writes: Still don't see a delta. Where is the river that would cause a delta? More importantly, even if this was a delta, how does this provide evidence for your "sand bar"? If you look you can see a city and roads and such sitting right in the middle of what Buz calls a delta. And the 'river' if you look is actually a frikken highway.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 549 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2011 9:10 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
Minnemooseus writes: From message 80: View Larger Map
If you look you can see a city and roads and such sitting right in the middle of what Buz calls a delta. Not unlike what we refer to as "New Orleans"?
And the 'river' if you look is actually a frikken highway. Running up what appears to be a river valley. The lightest area appears to be modern river flood plain confined by levees. I'd buy it as being a delta. Moose Not at all like New Orleans. There are no signs I can see of silt or silt build up, rather desert sand and rock.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Nuweiba Beach A Delta
I zoomed in to the highest level of detail Google has. But I do not see a delta. I do see signs that there is occasional seasonal (likely) run off, but no signs of a river or a river delta. It does appear to be a flood plain, but that is a different critter than a river delta system. This is a desert, was a desert at the time of the supposed Biblical Exodus, and is a desert now. Look at the Google Earth images of the Nile Delta, the Mississippi Delta, note the differences. There are no signs that there is any river or that there has ever been a river there. Rivers get occupied, even regular seasonal rivers get exploited, but there is no evidence that I know of that Nuweiba has ever had a river or even a steady water supply other than maybe a well. Yes, you can see that they likely do get very heavy run off when it does rain, but any sand or dirt that gets deposited then gets eroded by drought, sun and winds that do define a desert.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 554 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-21-2011 10:43 PM | | Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 563 of 657 (613175)
04-22-2011 10:31 AM
|
Reply to: Message 562 by Theodoric
04-22-2011 10:15 AM
|
|
Re: Alluvial fan?
Winds funneled by the canyon structure could also help explain what is seen. But still I see no evidence of a river or of any sandbar or that the Gulf of Aqaba was somehow filled in at that point in any recent (last 10,000) years.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 562 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2011 10:15 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 575 of 657 (617717)
05-30-2011 10:05 PM
|
|
|
Returning to the points raised in the OP.
If we look at the Exodus Saga story itself, it is written as a series of short episodes, each of which creates a classic serial story, much like the old serials that were shown at the theater. The episodes were written so that each nights tale would present a crisis that could be resolved but leave the audience wanting another story the next night. In the first episode they say say that the Israelites out number the Egyptians, but ends with the threat of all the male children being killed. What will happen next time, tune in next week to find out. This pattern is repeated through the whole 40 episodes.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
™ Version 4.2