Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?

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Believe me, if it had nothing to do with supporting the Biblical record, Ballard and others would be on it like piranha fish on a chunk of steak.

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No Buz, they wouldn't. The evidence to justify it isn't there.

Damn, do I have to spell everything out for you? Hunting tools, building tools, food processing tools, clothes-making tools. To name a few. So? They weren't with 2 million people on one site for a long period of time. 'm not even talking about broken tools. Even if none of their tools ever broke (which is completely impossible), then still we would expect to find intact tools. Even more so if they are as sturdy and unbreakable as you imply they are. What do native americans have to do with it? The tribes were never as numerous and never stayed in one place for a long period of time. Also, the enivornment is completely different. They were treated very badly as slaves, why else would they want to leave. If they were cared for so well that they could grow very strong and healthy, why leave in the first place, better yet, why not simply overthrow the government? With 2 million very strong and very healthy individuals, that shouldn't be that hard in those days. Seeing as they wandered for 40 years, almost all would've died in the wilderness. And of course, the bible would be worong there too. So? Stories aren't evidence, Buz.

Hi Buz,I'd like to put this thread on an evidence-based footing. I've only read up to your Message 138 so far, so if you haven't already, please summarize the nature of the evidence found at Nuweiba, tell us where it is right now, and provide supporting links and/or references.Also, most of your effort in this thread seems to be focused on explaining why there is no evidence for the Exodus. I'd like to shift the focus to the actual evidence that does exist.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Which has been shown in this thread and a previous thread that it isn't corroborating, mostly speculation.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Since Admin has requested that the debate focus on the evidence, I am reviewing the thread, page by page to revisit the messages pertaining to evidence. I am compiling some additional material pertaining to some of these evidence related messages.Please bear with me as this will take some time before proceeding in the debate.

The request was to shift the focus of discussion back to the evidence, not to summarize all the evidence presented thus far in the thread. The only specific request for evidence I made concerned a chariot wheel.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I plan to get to the wheels, but since an important factor is the corroborating evidence which is supportive to the wheel like forms being wheels and makes it all compatible with the Biblical account of the Exodus, I want to make some important additional points about some of the supportive evidences. In my busy life it may take some time before I'm ready to proceed.The consensus among my counterparts in this debate incessantly insist that I have never produced any evidence whatsoever, including the claimed corroborative evidence. Therefore I find it necessary to attempt to put these charges to rest.Abe: LOL, given the mindset of the Exodus skeptics Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Let us be clear Buz, I point out that you have raised no SIGNIFICANT evidence. That is why no serious investigators are interested in the site. If there really was good evidence then I guarantee that investigators would turn up. But there isn't.I hope that you will do the honest thing and refrain from repeating claims shown to be false in this thread - and previous threads on the topic. No more misrepresentations of the Bible, for instance. Bu frankly, I don't expect it.

PaulK, none of it has yet been empirically refuted. It's been debated, the secularist hoard, in chorus, vs the one citing the existing, ducks in a row, corroborated evidence. Give me some time and we'll revisit some of that evidence with particular pertinent points, corroborating the wheel & axel forms to be indeed chariot wheels of the Biblical Exodus.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

Understand that wheel and axle forms are never wheels or axles until they are recovered and tested and those tests reviewed and verified.Understand that even if a chariot wheel is found it is not support for the Biblical Exodus unless it can be identified as belonging to a specific Pharaoh's army, a specific Pharaoh who then died during the chase of the no longer fleeing Israelites.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Even if theses wheels are Egyptian Chariot wheels, even dated to the period of the alleged Exodus, there would be no way of proving that this particular wheel was on a particular chariot chasing Israel.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

But let's be fair. The chariot wheels Buz is talking about were "discovered" by Ron Wyatt, and they're widely believed to be figments of Wyatt's overactive imagination and efforts at self-promotion by making spectacular announcements. No one who requires actual evidence accepts Wyatt's claims.But if Egyptian chariot wheels were actually discovered in a plausible location for the Exodus, and if they were dated to the proper period, then it would be positive and intriguing evidence consistent with the Exodus story. If other similar evidence were also found, such as remains of encampments from plausible locations and dates, then one would have to begin to concede that the Exodus might plausibly have really happened.Buz has enumerated a great deal of evidence in this thread, and none of it appears to have any acceptance within the relevant communities of scholars. Much of it appears to be obviously bogus, such as the Horeb Rock. Rather than trying to convince Buz his evidence is bogus, which probably isn't possible, it might be better to just enumerate the scientific support for them, if any.--Percy

All Buz has is Wyatt's extraordinary claims. I might as well as claim that I have found the Ark of the Covenant here in Wisconsin. I can even supply photographs if anyone wants evidence. That is the quality of the "evidence" Buz has supplied. His claims of corroboration are other extraordinary claims by Wyatt.
For corroboration of my claim, I can show photos of the Ten Commandments too. They are a little grainy and didn't come out well, but trust me it is the actual Ark and the actual Tablet of the 14 commandments(the bible seems to have left some out).

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

But Lennart Moller, Swedish marine biologist scientist deemed Wyatt's evidence credible enough to spend his time and resources with his marine exploratory marine vessel equipped with suitable cameras etc for researching the site. He is the one who featured the Exodus Video and wrote the Exodus Case book.Moller's purpose was not to self promote and make spectacular announcements.There was also a woman scientist named in the Video (forgot name) who did some research on the Saudi side of the crossing, also considering the discovery to be valid. I'll work on some more info relative to these points. Some of the dates have been questioned and debated due to the tendency of Pharaohs to skew the dates and obliterate info which might damage their own reputation. It also behooved Egypt to conceal, as much as possible, the devastation of Egypt's defense military so as not to embolden enemy nations to attack.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

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PaulK, none of it has yet been empirically refuted.

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Presumably you mean that pointing out that the Bible doesn't say what you claim it says is not an empirical refutation and therefore should be ignored. Likewise you presumably discount a rational evaluation of the evidence, showing it to be lacking in weight. This is not a promising start. It is practically a declaration that you intend to be dishonest.

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Give me some time and we'll revisit some of that evidence with particular pertinent points, corroborating the wheel & axel forms to be indeed chariot wheels of the Biblical Exodus.

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If you have major new evidence then it would be far better if you produced it rather than revisiting the few weak - at best - points you have made here. I have been asking for that evidence for years. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.