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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 301 of 657 (602897)
02-01-2011 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 2:52 PM


Re: Arabia
Buzsaw writes:
Your strawman does not cut the mustard.. A map of the US includes Texas as part and parcel of the US proper.
And a map of Arabia includes Arabiae Pertrea as part and parcel of Arabia proper. So, when you searched for "Arabia Pertrea" in wiki, of course you got the map that showed it separate, just like I got the map showing Texas as separate when I searched for that.
{ABE}: This link, from bible-history.com, very clearly states that Arabia Pertrea was a part of Arabia.
Care to dodge around that?
Edited by Huntard, : Added {ABE} bit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 2:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 302 of 657 (602898)
02-01-2011 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 3:17 PM


Re: Midian's Double Location Explained
Buzsaw writes:
jar writes:
And "Midian" included both the Arabian and Suez peninsula, remember, your very own link supported that.
I checked that out, Jar. From what I could research, it was the wrong traditional Mt Sinai which propagated the assumption that part of Media included Mt. Sinai.
Who ever propagated the traditional Mt Sinai named both the mountain and the peninsula as "Sinai" and went from that to assume Midian was in the peninsula to accommodate their interpretation of the Biblical Exodus. Thus some of the maps showing Midian in two locations.
This is how one falsehood leads to another.
I seriously doubt that you did check that out Buz or even do any research and that this 8is just another of your unsupported fantasies.
It is possible that I might be wrong but in that case you will be able to present the evidence in support of your position. I look forward to examining that evidence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 3:17 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 303 of 657 (602901)
02-01-2011 3:58 PM


Map of Eastern Mediterranean in the Time of Jesus
Showing trade routes leading to Jerusalem in the time of Jesus, this is from The Macmillan Bible Atlas:
The label "Arabia" begins in the Sinai Peninsula.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 304 of 657 (602902)
02-01-2011 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Buzsaw
01-31-2011 4:15 PM


Re: Arabia
Buzsaw writes:
The Biblical record of the Exodus links Moses's location after the crossing as Midian.
Remember that Moses made his first trip to Midian before the Exodus:
quote:
Exo 2:15 Now when Pharaoh heard this thing, he sought to slay Moses. But Moses fled from the face of Pharaoh, and dwelt in the land of Midian: and he sat down by a well.
You have the same problem there as with the Exodus: There was no reason to travel all the way to the Arabian Peninsula to escape Pharaoh's wrath. The Sinai Peninsula was remote enough.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Buzsaw, posted 01-31-2011 4:15 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 4:05 PM ringo has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 305 of 657 (602905)
02-01-2011 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by ringo
02-01-2011 3:59 PM


Re: Arabia
ringo writes:
Remember that Moses made his first trip to Midian before the Exodus:
LOL. What army is going to go after or even care about one man?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

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 Message 304 by ringo, posted 02-01-2011 3:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 306 of 657 (602908)
02-01-2011 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 4:05 PM


Re: Arabia
Buzsaw writes:
Ringo writes:
Remember that Moses made his first trip to Midian before the Exodus:
LOL. What army is going to go after or even care about one man?
Exactly. Moses didn't have to escape very far, just out of sight, out of mind. The Sinai Peninsula was plenty far enough. And your own argument is that the Israelites escaped to the same place.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 307 of 657 (602913)
02-01-2011 4:48 PM


Wyatt's Sin: He Kicked Too Many Butts.
The reason Wyatt and Lennart Moller have been decried by Christian constituencies like our darling, ICR is that he kicked too many elitist ideological butts. Wyatt, the nobody non-professional anesthesia administrator for a hospital falsified the highly educated elitist professionals. He committed the ideological unpardonable sin.
Years ago I exchanged some communication with Henry Morris. As much as I appreciate much of what ICR has done, I got no reasonable responses from Morris as to why he rejects the Nuweiba hypothesis.
Henry Morris and ICR would have to re-tool a lot of their literature and courses etc. in the Institute, admitting to major past errors if they were to fully research the Nuweiba site.
The same goes for ICR's lack of interest in researching Wyatt's alleged Noah's Ark site to attempt to falsify it.
This is the case with other organizations and creationist entities who simply don't want to admit to error which as been so long propagated and published over the centuries.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 308 of 657 (602915)
02-01-2011 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 4:48 PM


Re: Wyatt's Sin: He Kicked Too Many Butts.
Buzsaw writes:
The reason Wyatt and Lennart Moller have been decried by Christian constituencies like our darling, ICR is that he kicked too many elitist ideological butts. Wyatt, the nobody non-professional anesthesia administrator for a hospital falsified the highly educated elitist professionals. He committed the ideological unpardonable sin.
No, he is decried because he faked and falsified data.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 4:48 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 309 of 657 (602918)
02-01-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
Some maps specify Arabia Petraea and others do not, depending on the purpose of the map. I stand by the argument that the NT writers were aware of the province of Arabia Petraea not being part and parcel of Arabia proper.
I maintain that the traditional Mt Sinai has no corroborating evidence for being the Biblical Mt Sinai, so regardless of the Arabia debate, Nuweiba trumps the Sinai Peninsula Hypothesis.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by PaulK, posted 02-01-2011 5:42 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 311 by Admin, posted 02-01-2011 5:43 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 312 by jar, posted 02-01-2011 6:40 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 319 by Huntard, posted 02-02-2011 1:50 AM Buzsaw has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 310 of 657 (602931)
02-01-2011 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
quote:
Some maps specify Arabia Petraea and others do not, depending on the purpose of the map. I stand by the argument that the NT writers were aware of the province of Arabia Petraea not being part and parcel of Arabia proper.
So basically, having produced no evidence whatsoever you stand by the opinion that Arabia Petraea isn't a part of Arabia - despite the fact that it's very name indicates otherwise. We have one map which explicitly states that Arabia Petraea was one of the three parts of Arabia. Another in which the label "Arabia" clearly includes Sinai - and you had to lie about the one map you did point to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 5:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 311 of 657 (602933)
02-01-2011 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
Buzsaw writes:
I stand by the argument...
I'm here simply to effect an increased focus on evidence. The question isn't whether you are standing by the argument, but whether the evidence is standing by you. Arabia Petraea was the name Rome gave to their Arabian province. It refers to that part of Arabia ruled from Petra, an ancient city in what is now Jordan. This is from the Wikipedia article on Petra:
Wikipedia writes:
In 106 CE, when Cornelius Palma was governor of Syria, that part of Arabia under the rule of Petra was absorbed into the Roman Empire as part of Arabia Petraea, becoming capital.
In other words, Arabia Petraea was the portion of Arabia that became part of the Roman Empire.
This information I've just provided should not be considered final, and I'm not trying to join the discussion. This is just to illustrate that instead of just insisting that you're not giving up your position you should instead be seeking evidence that supports it.
Please, no replies to this message.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 312 of 657 (602940)
02-01-2011 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 5:01 PM


Re: Which Map Do We Go With?
Buzsaw writes:
Some maps specify Arabia Petraea and others do not, depending on the purpose of the map. I stand by the argument that the NT writers were aware of the province of Arabia Petraea not being part and parcel of Arabia proper.
I maintain that the traditional Mt Sinai has no corroborating evidence for being the Biblical Mt Sinai, so regardless of the Arabia debate, Nuweiba trumps the Sinai Peninsula Hypothesis.
First, Arabia Petraea would include the Nuweiba area since it covered both side of the Gulf of Aqaba.
quote:
Arabia Petraea, also called Provincia Arabia or simply Arabia, was a frontier province of the Roman Empire beginning in the 2nd century; it consisted of the former Nabataean kingdom in modern Jordan, southern modern Syria, the Sinai Peninsula and northwestern Saudi Arabia. Its capital was Petra. It was bordered on the north by Syria, on the west by Iudaea and Aegyptus.
Arabia Petraea shown in Red.
from Wiki
Second, it was but one of three divisions that together made up Arabia. The other two were Arabia Deserta and Arabia Felix.
Third, you have presented NO corroborating evidence no matter how many times you claim it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 5:01 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 10:50 PM jar has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 313 of 657 (602956)
02-01-2011 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Theodoric
01-31-2011 10:13 AM


Bump for Buz
Any chance you are going to answer this? Maybe provide some evidence for your claims?
Theodoric writes:
Just a marine scientist's techy underwater photographs and videos of wheel and axle shaped corral crusted forms, again at the right place in the row of ducks.
Who is this marine scientist? Can you show us these "techy" photos?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2011 10:13 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 314 of 657 (602960)
02-01-2011 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Buzsaw
02-01-2011 3:17 PM


Re: Midian's Double Location Explained
Buzsaw writes:
I checked that out, Jar. From what I could research, it was the wrong traditional Mt Sinai which propagated the assumption that part of Media included Mt. Sinai.
This is the kind of stuff I'd like to see your evidence for. Could you describe your research?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Buzsaw, posted 02-01-2011 3:17 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 315 of 657 (602969)
02-01-2011 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Theodoric
02-01-2011 8:05 PM


Re: Bump for Buz
Theodoric writes:
Any chance you are going to answer this? Maybe provide some evidence for your claims?
Theodoric writes:
Just a marine scientist's techy underwater photographs and videos of wheel and axle shaped corral crusted forms, again at the right place in the row of ducks.
Who is this marine scientist? Can you show us these "techy" photos?
Where have you been in this thread. The name of the scientist, Lennart Moller of Sweden is all over the thread and there is some of his photography as well. Google Exodus Video and you should get some excerpts of the video. There are other videos at Ron Wyatt's home site as well. Some of them have been embellished as I understand. Others have not.
If you don't find what you're looking for, get back to me and I'll see what I can do for you.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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