Obama Gun-control

Do you really think a national government without the power to control the flow of arms across its borders is a good idea?

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

Uh, no, that is not true. You can still buy an M1 Garand. No one is stopping you from doing so.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Ah, right. Faux news is so fair and balanced, right? They are the only ones who report the real news. I bet you think Beckster and Bill-O are the only voice of reason in the media. Maybe a little Limblow for good measure? Care to play 6 degrees to Hitler? Where's my chalkboard..........

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Your god believes in Unicorns

no, but that is not what I said, nor is that what I am talking about.This Admin told us they would allow it, and we have been waiting for CMP to get the guns, and then the Admin reneged, and told us some bullshit guncontrol reason why it is okay to purchase Garands from circulation or from the springfield armory inc, but for some reason the same guns from South Korea are too dangerous. It makes no sense other than some strange lib gun control.
At 1st I thought maybe Obama was throwing a bone to his constituents, since he has been increadbly weak on guns, and gets greif from the gun grabbers about it, but when the state department was quiet about it, and the obama fan club/liberal media did not toot thier horns to show what a great job the admin was doing to keep us safe (from our own constitution), I had to think of another reason, and it is still puzzling.

wow your almost as good at this as theodoric. LMFAO. are you ready for goodwin's law already? Dang that was quick No webpage found at provided URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law My media voice of reason is the King of All Media himself, Howard Stern.

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"Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have." Barry Au-H2OI never learned from a man who agreed with me. --Robert A. Heinlein

Well, had I thought you had a valid concern other than liberal bashing and tea party madness: I might have some better discourse. But since it is blatantly obvious you are a faux news-o-phile and are just spewing rhetoric, I don't thing actual discussion will prove to be worthwhile...especially since you cannot differentiate between your and you're.

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Your god believes in Unicorns

I know you didn't say nations shouldn't be able to control the flow of arms. You accept that sometimes it is correct to do so.You just disagree with this particular decision because it hurts your wallet and/or interests as a collector. You thought it was a done deal, and now you're disappointed. I understand that.But you want to treat a policy difference as a political crisis, a betrayal of our constitutional rights and values. "I knew we couldn't trust Obama!" (paraphrase, paraphrase, don't get up ).You know, I grew up in a time when liberals and conservatives could actually get along, do some bipartisan things and not try to sabotage an administration because they disagreed on policies. A government elected by the majority is supposed to govern, not suffer paralysis because their opponents are rabid.Now political differences cause conservatives to denounce the president as a Muslim, a fascist, a communist, a traitor: any damage to the republic is okay as long as it takes Obama with it.Liberals haven't gotten more liberal--could the liberals of today even dream of passing Social Security, Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, normalizing relations with China (oops, that famous lib Nixon slipped in there!...)? The change has been in the Republican Party and in conservatives in general; they have forgotten how to disagree and still work together for a greater good.And do you think Obama personally makes all decisions for the State Department? Maybe that was Hillary, punishing the right for the way they tried to destroy Bill's presidency with investigations of Blow Jobs, Gov. Clinton Drug Running, and Secret White House Homicides.You guys need to chill.

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

That's not all the Second Amendment says.

quote:

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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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Your right to keep and bear arms isn't being infringed here. Nobody's saying you can't own an M1 Garand, which is what the Constitution guarantees; they're just saying you can't buy one from South Korea, which is not a right granted to you by the Second Amendment.Guns should be controlled because of their incredible utility for murder. Gun control does not infringe your rights under the Second Amendment, which presents a qualified right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of the security of the state. That means that owning arms is subordinate to what we need to do to keep people safe.Unlike the First Amendment, which is unqualified, the right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment is a fundamentally qualified one.

What ever happened to the Loyal Opposition?To me it started with Watergate. Woodward and Bernstein, rightfully IMO, brought down the administration. But the media saw the fame and fortune they achieved and ever since then every faux pas, peccadillo, policy bungle, even personal health matters gets a "-gate" after it. From Ketchup-gate (Reagan), Billy-gate (Carter), Katrina-gate (Bush II), Korea-gate (Ford), Monica-gate (Clinton) ...Does anyone know how much pussy Kennedy got in the Lincoln Bedroom? Does anyone care?Ford was a useless klutz with his pants too short, Carter was politically inept with hemorrhoids, Reagan was a radical and going to nuke the planet, Bush I was a pansy and barfed on the Emperor's shoes, Clinton was a fake and got a knob-job while on the phone to Gingrich , Bush II was a moron and (heaven forbid) a real christian and now Obama is a muslim on a jihad to destroy the republic.Since Watergate, with the press in the lead, all forms of opposition expression of either party from print to TV to radio to e-mails to blogs to web sites are geared to soil, emasculate, embarrass and bring down the President regardless of the harm to the nation.We have lost the Loyal Opposition.

I agree that the press has become an echo chamber, each echo louder and uglier than the one before. The internet has promoted that as well, each faction able to construct an alternate reality where only they exist.Politics have always been hardball. But a change has occurred that the press reflects rather than causes.Conservatives of all stripes either actually spout madness about the president or silently let it stand.We are at a dangerous crossroad, and the danger is from the right.

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

I disagree.The crossroads is well behind us.For the present Administration the vitriol, hyperbole, fear-mongering is from the right. For the last Administration it came, in equal measure, from the left.Both have abandoned the very concept of a Loyal Opposition to foster hate and to destroy the credibility, the viability and the workability of the Office of the President in the eyes of the nation and the rest of the world.To oppose on substantive policy matters is one thing. To seek to destroy purely from bile is another. And both sides have sought to destroy.

I disagree, and I'd be happy to continue in more detail if you think it's worth another thread. Otherwise, you can have the last word here, and we'll move on with our respective opinions: I doubt very much that I'll change yours or that you'll change mine.Yes, you can find images and reports of protesters vilifying Bush in terms as strong as those used to vilify Obama. But you won't find records of a major news network with a vendetta like Fox's.You won't find an entire party leadership participating in the lowest form of agitprop, careful not to dispell the notion that the president is a Islamofascist Nazi.Bush enjoyed overwhelming liberal (and world) support after 9/11--and squandered it by lying us into war. Obama faced nothing but "no" when he took office in the worst economic recession in decades. You won't find records of a Democratic minority in Congress bringing governance to a grinding halt by filibustering every Bush initiative. Compare the GOP filibustes during Obama's term to date to historical practice. That data is widely available, and it is damning.If the GOP/Tea Party wins back power in 2010/2012, do you suppose the Democrats should attempt to block every initiative with filibusters and other parliamentary delaying tacts, all the while insinuating that the Republican president is not a Christian, has suspect birthrights, etc.?Democrats sought to impeach Nixon for crimes; Republicans tried to remove Clinton for petty, private sexual hijinks--while many of them, like Gingrich, were themselves simultaneously conducting affairs.If it works this time on the right, it is difficult to see why Democrats would not repay the courtesies.Things have changed. The right changed them.Edited by Omnivorous, : typosEdited by Omnivorous, : more typosEdited by Omnivorous, : whatevs

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Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

That seems an immaterial justification. M1's are legal in the United States. What exactly is the difference?We could "what-if" everything to the point where nothing was legal. I could, for instance, point to the fact that if the United States would stop this losing "drug war," drug cartels would be out of business, which would take my "what-if" to counter your "what-if." So what? Are Koreans disallowed to be entrepreneurs to stimulate revenue for their economy? People should always keep the government at an arm's distance, regardless of the Administration. Just because a government is cool with something now, doesn't mean that it always will be.More to the point, only an idiot president would change things overnight and risk a revolution. It's the slow degradation process that really changes things in the long term. I think that is a rather unfair characterization of his argument. His angle is that it makes no sense, being that M1's aren't illegal.Secondly, the age doesn't matter. Gun collector's, or just collector's in general, enjoy purchasing antiques and vintage items. Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

So you knew that Obama would not allow S. Koreans to dump 500,000 M1 Garands into the US market? Really? Sorry if I am a bit incredulous. So your only complaint is that you can't by this rifle from S. Koreans? Wow. I suppose that Obama has control over ebay as well?

Fox does take the prize for doing it meaner and dirtier than anyone else, though CBS and NBC did try but just couldn't match Fox's standards. Excuse me? Sorose/MoveOn.org? Bush as HitlerAnd CBS airing the "controversy" for three nights straight, complete with excerpts from the movie, without any condemnation? Of course the DNC saw no need to comment either.Obama is not the first sitting president to be so vilified by the crazies while the opposition leadership sat on its thumbs.Neither side has openly condemned their crazies' excesses. This is the sad part. It appears now to be universally acceptable to let the hate spew on without comment. Hyperbole. Obama has been very successful in implementing his agenda despite the efforts of the Republicans. Four generations of Democrats sought Healthcare Reform. Obama got it along with hundreds of billions in stimulus spending.Compare the GOP filibusters during Obama's term to date to historical practice and you have to conclude that they were not at all effective. A lot of heat and smoke, but in the end Obama was successful. If the Republicans had managed to "bring governance to a halt" none of this would have happened.I'm an independent. Straight down the middle of the road. I have no pets to either party and plenty of ax to grind for both.Some historical perspective.Case 1. Remember Reagan shutting down the government in his fight with the stonewalling Democrat-controlled House over the budget? The Republicans returned the favor by doing the same stupid shit under Clinton. To their credit neither President blinked and the prospect of the nation in default on its Treasury notes finally brought both do-nothing Houses to their knees.Case 2: Remember nearly half the judicial appointments by Reagan and Bush I going unfilled by a recalcitrant Democratic party using filibuster and Senatorial privilege? The Republicans returned the favor under Clinton then the Democrats again under Bush II. The only thing that stopped the BS was Justice Ginsberg's impassioned plea to Harry Reid to stop the bullshit before the Second and Fifth Circuits went into meltdown.The "good" of the nation hung in the balance and BOTH parties ignored it seeking instead to destroy the sitting presidents. No, but we can expect the "out" party to be as vile and vindictive as possible to kill the leadership potential of whomever is in the Oval Office.That is the point. Both sides do it as a matter of policy without regard for the consequences to the nation or the President's role in the the wider world. To an extent, yes. But officially the charges were his lying to the Federal Grand Juries, one in Arkansas and one in DC. Perjury is a Class E Felony under the US Code and carries a 5 year sentence in a Federal Slammer. Thankfully, even the Republicans in the Senate could see the great harm, not to the President, but to the Presidency, if the BS was not stopped. They have and they will, just as the Republicans have and will.And that is the point. The opposition has lost its loyalty to the good of the nation. This is not new. It has been going on for the last thirty years from both parties.Blame the right if you so desire. It will not change the fact that both sides are guilty. No, Omni, I have run my course. I leave the summation to you.