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Author Topic:   Faith healing: why does god need to asked to heal people?
frako
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 46 of 63 (579885)
09-06-2010 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by nwr
09-06-2010 1:00 PM


ok so no pope then only crosses nuns and priests

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2382 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 47 of 63 (579887)
09-06-2010 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by frako
09-06-2010 1:23 PM


frako writes:
ok so no pope then only crosses nuns and priests.
No!
No nuns and priests either, that's also catholic. You'll want ministers, reverends and preachers.
Crosses are fine though.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 49 by frako, posted 09-06-2010 1:45 PM Huntard has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 48 of 63 (579891)
09-06-2010 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Huntard
09-06-2010 1:35 PM


Nuns and Priests could also be many protestant religions, for example the COE and Episcopalians.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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frako
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 49 of 63 (579892)
09-06-2010 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Huntard
09-06-2010 1:35 PM


then its better to get an aditional group whit one whit the pope and the others whit reverands.
ok this is getting a bit offtopic
i still wonder what they would say when the results came back

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2382 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 50 of 63 (579893)
09-06-2010 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
09-06-2010 1:41 PM


Ah sorry, my bad. Those aren't "creationist" churches either though.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2382 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 51 of 63 (579894)
09-06-2010 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by frako
09-06-2010 1:45 PM


frako writes:
i still wonder what they would say when the results came back
"God works in mysterious ways", probably.

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frako
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 52 of 63 (579895)
09-06-2010 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Huntard
09-06-2010 2:06 PM


or he dint heal them because he wanted to test our faith.
i wonder if i could convince the local priest to participate in a similar experiment only whit rats or mice cause i don't have the funds for anything else. who knows maybe the result would surprise me.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 63 (579903)
09-06-2010 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by archaeologist
09-05-2010 12:40 AM


I don't know that God doesn't heal amputees. I'm sure it's rare, but then it just stands to reason that it would take a lot of faith. Jesus said you only need a little (mustard seed) but he also said you have to use it. It would take a lot of faith to equal a little at times
That's not a good rejoinder. That not one amputee has been healed at least appears to be a good indication that intercessory prayer does nothing.
I mean, haven't you ever noticed that people only say things are miracles when good things happen? I'll give you an example: In an infamous battle in Afghanistan, approximately 15 Navy SEALs (some of whom I knew personally, albeit briefly) were killed in action, along with 6 or so Army Nightstalkers in the Hindu Kush mountains.
A solitary Navy SEAL made it out alive. This SEAL claims that God delivered him from his enemies, though half of the platoon were Christian too. They died horribly painful deaths, and he barely survived. In fact, if it weren't for the ancient middle eastern culture of extreme hospitality, he would have been executed.
So everyone is claiming that it was a miracle, when all signs point to nothing more than a combination of pure luck, steadfast determination, and excellent military training. Had everyone died, you would hear no mention of God. That one guy made it out means the difference from people claiming miracles.
Why is that?
but atheists just want excuses to remain atheists.
And the religious want the same. The kinds of mental gymnastics the religious have to go through to validate themselves and their beliefs are staggering.
I mean, look what you're doing with the amputee's. It's a very simple question, but it's one that you cannot answer genuinely and simply.
People die horrific deaths every day on planet earth, but they only pay homage to God when he inexplicably saves one. Does that strike you as nothing more than a coincidence?

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6203
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 54 of 63 (579907)
09-06-2010 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-03-2010 1:13 PM


Larni writes:
Why does god need to be petitioned by people saying prayers to heal people?
It seems odd to me that a god would only heal people when they are prayed for.
Does this mean that god only heals those who have enough people who like and pray for them?
Can't god tell when a person deserves healing?
It seems to me that there are millions of people around the world who could be healed and yet this does not happen.
Why does god need to be asked to heal people?
I’ll try to respond to this as a Christian.
The first part of my response is to say that I don’t know. I remember years ago when a very well known English evangelist David Watson died from cance,r even though there were Christians around the world praying for him. Obviously there are no simple answers and yet as a Christian I believe that I was called to pray.
I don’t think that there is any doubt that a lot of illness is caused by something other than germs, broken bones etc. Stress and anxiety in our lives can bring on physical ailments. I have observed that prayer does appear to bring some relief from anxiety for people but obviously that could just be the dismissed as the placebo effect. Still I did read a recent secular study that showed that religious people were not as stressed as non-religious people. We can all make whatever we like of that. ( I couldn’t find that particular study but here is an earlier one.Religion as a Stress Reliever. )
As I’m a Christian and not a materialist I believe that there is more to all of us than what we perceive naturally. I also believe that physical death is not the end of life. From that point of view we don’t actually know the ultimate outcome of our prayers. I’m not saying that the people that prayed for David Watson weren’t praying for a physical healing, but maybe a healing is part of something more than just what happens in this lifetime. Once again it is just conjecture.
Another thought on what happens when we pray for healing for others is this. Here is a quote from the Old Testament book of Micah.
Micah 6:6-8 writes:
6With what shall I come to the LORD
And bow myself before the God on high?
Shall I come to Him with burnt offerings,
With yearling calves?
7Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams,
In ten thousand rivers of oil?
Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts,
The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8He has told you, O man, what is good;
And what does the LORD require of you
But to do justice, to love kindness,
And to walk humbly with your God?
What God wants of all of us, whether Christian or not, is that we treat others justly, that we treat others with kindness and mercy, that we find pleasure in observing kindness in general, and that we remain humble by eschewing the kind of pride that elevates ourselves in our own mind above others.
It seems to me that when we pray for healing for others that it not only is fulfilling what God asks of us, but that it also works towards changing our hearts so that we more naturally, by just the act of practicing compassion and humility, become more and more people who humbly love justice and kindness.
I’m not saying that these are definitive answers. As I said, I don’t know, but stil,l these are some of things that we can consider we talk about praying for healing.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 55 of 63 (579908)
09-06-2010 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Hyroglyphx
09-06-2010 2:46 PM


A solitary Navy SEAL made it out alive. This SEAL claims that God delivered him from his enemies, though half of the platoon were Christian too. They died horribly painful deaths, and he barely survived. In fact, if it weren't for the ancient middle eastern culture of extreme hospitality, he would have been executed.
So everyone is claiming that it was a miracle, when all signs point to nothing more than a combination of pure luck, steadfast determination, and excellent military training. Had everyone died, you would hear no mention of God. That one guy made it out means the difference from people claiming miracles.
Why is that?
Google turns up 45,000 hits for the word miracle in conjunction with the phrase "sole survivor".
Strange, isn't it?
If a hundred people don't get killed, that's normal, but if ninety-nine of them do get killed that's evidence of a beneficient God.

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 825
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 56 of 63 (579911)
09-06-2010 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Dr Adequate
09-06-2010 2:58 PM


If a hundred people don't get killed, that's normal, but if ninety-nine of them do get killed that's evidence of a beneficient God.
If everyone lives then they don't know that god saved them!

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jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 57 of 63 (579917)
09-06-2010 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Huntard
09-06-2010 1:51 PM


They are not anti-science churches, but come-on, we are still Creationists. The only real difference between us and the fundies is we go on to ask "How did God do that?"

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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frako
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 58 of 63 (579918)
09-06-2010 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Dr Adequate
09-06-2010 2:58 PM


im guessing that atheist's are never soul survivors and if they are its pure luck no god involved

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2382 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 59 of 63 (579919)
09-06-2010 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
09-06-2010 3:30 PM


Well, ok. In the strictest sense of the word, I guess you could consider every theist a creationist. But I think you know what I meant when I said that.

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jar
Member
Posts: 34064
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 60 of 63 (579920)
09-06-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by frako
09-06-2010 3:32 PM


im guessing that atheist's are never soul survivors and if they are its pure luck no god involved
Now please take this the right way.
That is one of the funniest posts I've seen at EvC.
It does depend on understanding the English language though, and so may have been in error, but my suggestion to you is...if it was in error, pretend you meant it all along.
The joke.
The English words soul and sole are pronounced the same but the former means the typically Christian concept of the thing that survives after death and the latter means singular (or a flat fish).
So the idea of an atheist's soul is funny.
Thank you sir.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 58 by frako, posted 09-06-2010 3:32 PM frako has replied

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