Re: Jesus was first man
| I don't think that adds up...|
A man is a human being. We need an atmosphere to live in. Jesus would have to have been on another planet, or have a space-suit or something.
I might not express the thought of the pre-existing Christ exactly as Phat has expressed it.
When the Gospel of John says that the Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1) , I think he is speaking of a life prior to incarnation as a man.
In verse 14 John says " And the Word became flesh". So this Person BECAME what He apparently was not before He thus became. The Word became flesh is the Word became a man. God, in the incarnation of Jesus Christ, became a man.
On the other hand I concur very much that as a man, though He was incarnated as such long after creation, He was in God's heart as a standard model according to which the first created man Adam, was designed.
This is a bit circular. But I think something like this must be the case. For when Genesis says " And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness ... And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them " (Gen. 1:27) it must have to do with man being made, created according to Christ.
Why? Because Christ is the image of the invisible God.
[color=yellow] "Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation ... " (Col. 1:15)
"Who being the effulgence of His glory and the impress of His substance ..." (Hebrews 1:3a)
"Christ, who is the image of God ..." (2 Cor. 4:4b)
Somehow Adam the first human being was made in view of a standard model. That standard model appears to have been Christ even before He became a man.
If someone objects that this concept is problematic or circular, I think it is problematic. It is a problem to our limited minds who view things from the standpoint of inside of time.
So when Phat says that Jesus was the first man or pre-dates Christ, I understand what he is saying. Though I might not express it the same I concur.
Before there was space and time (and thus the need for a space suit) Christ as the Word was already. How do I know? I know because of the Word it says -
[color=yellow] " ... and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being though Him, and apart from Him not one things came into being which has come into being." (John 1:1c=3)
"Because in Him [Christ] all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him." (Col. 1:16)
Man is not a small thing then. The universe was created for a Man.
The universe was created for man not merely in the sense of being a hospital place for man to exist. I mean the universe is created to be the possession of man. In view that this man is HEADED UP and LEAD by a MAN. That leader MAN is Christ.
I believe that all that real estate out there, whether the Milky Way or Andromeda or any of the billions of galaxies are created for Christ and the humanity that He heads up.
But such details are not mine at this point. Maybe the particulars of t his ownership by Christ and His people is written on the 50,000th page of the unraveling scroll in Revelation.
Anyway, God created Adam with Christ in mind as a standard model somehow.
I think Phat wrote the following -
In the beginning, Jesus was the Word. Later, he became man
Jesus was plan A, not plan B.
To which is replied -
That's debatable. Some christians see Jesus as a sacrificial lamb to pay for the mistakes mankind made. That'd be pretty [explicit deleted] up for that to be the plan from the beginning, and that would eliminate the whole 'mistake' part of it.
Christ can be the Redeemer as the Lamb of God and ALSO be the Plan A of God according to which man was originally intended.
This can be true but also means that the Bible is not only about how God supplies a remedial solution to the human sin problem. This solving of this sin problem is not an end in itself. It is a remedial solution to BRING MAN BACK to an eternal purpose of God.
Did God create man only for FORGIVENESS ?
I don't think so. There is forgiveness. But it is not an end in itself. Reconciliation back to God is that God may continue uninterrupted with His plan which had nothing to do with sin.
Do you know that JUDGMENT is called God's strange work, unusual work. That is it is perculiar that God should have to judge though He must -
Isaiah 28:21 - "For Jehovah will rise as on Mount Perazim, ... To do His deed, His strange deed, and to do His work, His most different work."
For God to HAVE to judge sin is "His strange work" and His "most different work" .
But He will do His responsibility.
So the first man created was Adam. But somehow Adam was created according to the image of Christ. Jesus Christ is what God meant by human being.
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| ||Message 107 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-08-2013 10:15 AM|| ||New Cat's Eye has not yet responded|