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Author Topic:   Existence After Death
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 76 of 163 (586319)
10-12-2010 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:50 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
I believe that God restrains us and his mercy sustains us; however, what goes on behind closed doors or in your mind. I think a big difference between here and Hell itself is the lack of the restraint of God where everyone will be left to the deepest darkest hatreds and desires.
I've always found it striking that believers here tell atheists that if there were no God, everyone could loot, pillage and rape to their hearts' content, and everyone would.
Since I don't, and none of the atheists I know do, I have to wonder what prompts that notion; perhaps you believers are restraining yourselves only by your religious beliefs?
Is that true?
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:50 PM dyluck has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 12:19 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
dyluck
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 77 of 163 (586322)
10-12-2010 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Dr Adequate
10-12-2010 2:12 PM


Re: Life After Death
Dr Adequate writes:
What I have not done is stuff that would make Hitler look like a choirboy, not even in the privacy of my own brain.
I understand that preaching the Gospel requires you to point out that we are in a fallen state and require forgiveness. But when you go further than this and claim that the average man is more evil than Hitler, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot. People are not generally that evil.
Intersting. Read Romans 1:18 and on if you are interested in God's oppinion about man's so-called "fallen state". He even claims, that everyone hates God. Man doesn't require simply "forgivness" but a justifying savior for forgiveness to even be possible.
Man is depraved... man is evil Romans 3:9-19. To the point that a earth covered of 2000 years of population and culture was wiped out in an instant which only 8 people surviving a deluge.
I did say "most people" and no one is good not one, let alone righteous. How do you know what goes on in the mind of your best friend? I can say biblically, its not good. If he could tell you, would he? honestly? Even if you think you never thought anything really "that" bad, how bad is it toward's God, first of all. And would you honestly admit to henious thougts even to a forum crowd? Suffice to say, the majority of things we do that we may concider "good" are concidered "fithly rags" to God (the direct translation of that by the way is used girl rags by the way). so maybe, let me rephrase this, perhaps you aren't making hitler look like a choir boy now, but how about without the restraint of God even on your own life, you would make hitler look like a chior boy.
Here is some quick practical examples:
Do you think that the creators of the Saw Movies aren't horrible? We all sit there watching it thinking this is good entertainment when really its sick, twisted and demented.
How about many of the movies we watch were suddenly we feel ourselves feeling sorry over the situation of the bad guy. Doesn't that tell you something? There is a paradime shift going on out there and it really is making the bad look good and the good look bad. Dont' you agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-12-2010 2:12 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Omnivorous, posted 10-12-2010 2:42 PM dyluck has replied
 Message 79 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-12-2010 2:49 PM dyluck has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 78 of 163 (586324)
10-12-2010 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by dyluck
10-12-2010 2:36 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
And would you honestly admit to henious thougts even to a forum crowd? Suffice to say, the majority of things we do that we may concider "good" are concidered "fithly rags" to God (the direct translation of that by the way is used girl rags by the way).
Sure--any long-term member here will tell you that the path from my thoughts to my typing fingers is short and unimpeded.
What would you like to know?
BTW, I think Dr A's most heinous thoughts would pale before your God's apparent contempt for women.

Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 2:36 PM dyluck has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 6:43 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 79 of 163 (586325)
10-12-2010 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by dyluck
10-12-2010 2:36 PM


Re: Life After Death
Yeah, look, I'm not arguing that people don't do bad things. I myself have done bad things. If you want to argue for Christianity, that's a good place to start.
But instead you start by arguing that the average person is more evil than Hitler. Well, no we're not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 2:36 PM dyluck has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 12:39 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 80 of 163 (586328)
10-12-2010 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:40 PM


Re: Life After Death
dyluck writes:
Does not the potter have the right to do with his pottery as he pleases?
No. For one thing, he doesn't have a right to use it as a murder weapon.
dyluck writes:
Honestly, if there is a God, creator of the universe. How can anyone stand against Him?
Now you're conflating right with might.
dyluck writes:
If someone tells you that forgiveness of God is possible, they are wrong. Forgiveness is made possible because God's sacrifice of his Son satisfied His own justice, his wrath due us.
God [voice of Marlon Brando] says: "What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully with your sinning? [thoughtful pause] I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse. [dramatic pause] Kill my son and we'll call it even."
That isn't justice. It's sheer stupidity.
The reason that I (and probably many others) reject fundamentalist dogma is because it's really, really stupid. If there was life after death, I certainly wouldn't want to spend it with such an idiotic god or anybody who's idiotic enough to follow him. (No offense intended. )
dyluck writes:
Bible says God is the only thing that creates out of nothing. so either you believe that matter itself is indeed infinite, its power is infinite to create such a wonderful place, or there is an infinite creator. Either way, infinity exists and we will have to submit to it.
Non sequitur.
Edited by ringo, : Decapitalized "Dyluck".

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:40 PM dyluck has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by frako, posted 10-12-2010 5:04 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 81 of 163 (586344)
10-12-2010 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
10-12-2010 2:54 PM


Re: Life After Death
God [voice of Marlon Brando] says: "What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully with your sinning? [thoughtful pause] I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse. [dramatic pause] Kill my son and we'll call it even."
god is probably senile who wouldent be after 15 billion years

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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 82 of 163 (586345)
10-12-2010 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:55 PM


Re: Life After Death
Your age eludes me by this statment.
My ability to be sarcastic when reading your post has nothing to do with my age, although it does help.
Obviously I was drawing a picture of the greatness of God.
And I was commenting on the greatness of the footstool. Obviously.
Assuming you didn't read the part that probably said "say there was day an night".
You said, "So there was day and night in Heaven," you said that as fact. Which to me, it seems silly to think that an immaterial place is going to have a sun and a moon and a functioning solar system as found in reality. Do you ever look into this stuff?
Well, what do you think you are? Honestly, I want to know.
What do I think I am? I don't know, human I guess. A bi-pedal primate, a mammal, a vertibrate, a living multicellular organism functioning in an environment. How specific do you want this?
Are you the God of your own world?
I am the master of my domain...sometimes.
Do you submit to some God or are you goign through life, chancing what happens after you die and hope that it all turns out?
I'm an atheist, so currently I have neither experienced nor seen any tangible, empirical evidence to support any god concept that humans believe in today or throughout history.
After I die is of no concern to me just like before I was born. There is no need for wishful thinking or to live your life by some rule that good here rewards you somekind of special treatment when you're dead - just don't be a dick to people while you're alive should be enough. Don't do it because you'll get a treat at the end, do it because you're an adult who knows right from wrong and can decide for yourself which is the better action.
How am I chancing anything? Do you mean like some sort of Pascal's Wager?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:55 PM dyluck has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by dyluck, posted 10-13-2010 12:09 PM onifre has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 83 of 163 (586356)
10-12-2010 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AricVader
09-14-2010 9:56 PM


This is it
If there is some sort of existence after death that comprises a person, I would think some late great scientist like Einstein or Carl Sagen would have let us know.
But it isn’t all glum. We still live on in the memories of others, and if you have children then half of your *genes are passed on as well.
"Praise the God of all, drink the wine and let the world be the world."
Ancient French saying
Edited by 1.61803, : replaced a word

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dyluck
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 10-06-2010


Message 84 of 163 (586358)
10-12-2010 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Omnivorous
10-12-2010 2:42 PM


Re: Life After Death
Omnivours writes:
BTW, I think Dr A's most heinous thoughts would pale before your God's apparent contempt for women.
Find for me the contempt for women in the bible? We are made equal but share a differnt role in life. Does not a parent love his & her children? Is their role to not do that? Does a child not honor his parents and assumes the role of a child? Then a women and a man have their roles. Its not about pecking order. Anyone who tells you that a women must submit to their men in a abusive subissive (underling) sense is taking the entire chapter / bible out of context.
the whole role in family life mirrors that of the relationshp between the Father / Son and holy spirit. Although the Son is 100% God and equal in every way, submits to the Father and is seen doing this many times.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Omnivorous, posted 10-12-2010 2:42 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Omnivorous, posted 10-12-2010 6:48 PM dyluck has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 85 of 163 (586359)
10-12-2010 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by dyluck
10-12-2010 6:43 PM


Re: Life After Death
We can start with your God using menstrual cloths as a badge of filth, no?

Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 6:43 PM dyluck has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 86 of 163 (586375)
10-12-2010 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:40 PM


Re: Life After Death
Does not the potter have the right to do with his pottery as he pleases?
Does the potter make pots that are more evil than Hitler?
Now that's one bad piece of crockery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:40 PM dyluck has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 87 of 163 (586376)
10-12-2010 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:50 PM


Re: Life After Death
Hi, Dyluck! Welcome!
You ask, "What part of God's law don't you like?"
The parts about no bacon, catfish, or shrimp come to mind.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 88 of 163 (586405)
10-13-2010 4:20 AM


So, anyway, near-death experiences
In an effort to search for commonalities and cultural differences in near-death experiences reported by different types of people, a couple of researchers from the American Society for Psyhical Research went around interviewing Indian Hindus who claimed to have had near-death experiences, to compare and contrast with the more familiar accounts of Americans and Europeans.
It seems that one thing common in the Hindu accounts (though how common I can't tell - can't find the original article) is the attribution of the experience to some sort of cosmic administrative error. They'd come across a clerk of the afterlife who'd angrily complain that this was Sanjit the baker instead of Sanjit the gardener, and then be sent back. This sort of thing rarely, if ever, happens in Western accounts.
I think this can tell us more about cultural beliefs and attitudes than the afterlife, but I thought it was interesting, anyway.

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 89 of 163 (586408)
10-13-2010 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by caffeine
10-13-2010 4:20 AM


Re: So, anyway, near-death experiences
They'd come across a clerk of the afterlife who'd angrily complain that this was Sanjit the baker instead of Sanjit the gardener, and then be sent back. This sort of thing rarely, if ever, happens in Western accounts.
hahaah i dint know that lol, terebly sorry for the inconvinience we made a mistake and killed the wrong Sanjit, if you could kindly sit on that cloud over there we will sort this out in a jiffi. *the administrator steps in a back room from where one can hear* there is the right little bastard hiding in plain sight smite him and get him over here. *the administrator comes back* ok we found the right sanjit these 2 pink unicorns will escort you back to your own body have a nice ....... 23 years 11 days and 22 hours down on erth and terably sorry for all the fuss.
i kinda doubt that is what happens i think these visions or halucinations are composed in the brain whitch is not functioning normaly do to the lack of o2, and it does simmilar things like it does in a dream it tries to interpret the imput it gets any way it can.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 90 of 163 (586409)
10-13-2010 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by dyluck
10-12-2010 1:40 PM


Re: Life After Death
Does not the potter have the right to do with his pottery as he pleases?
That's not a quote from Andrew Ryan is it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by dyluck, posted 10-12-2010 1:40 PM dyluck has not replied

  
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