Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9179 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,222 Year: 5,479/9,624 Month: 504/323 Week: 1/143 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Cause of Civil War
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(1)
Message 8 of 193 (584042)
09-29-2010 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Artemis Entreri
09-29-2010 1:30 PM


Payback Coming Soon - Apparent Terrorist Supporter
Artemis Entreri writes:
1865 the year the consitution died.
If I were you, I would retract this statement before this Saturday, when I will have the time to heavily document how the South sabotaged the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights prior to the Civil War through terrorist actions such as state-sanctioned lynch mobs.
Patriot my ass.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-29-2010 1:30 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 12 of 193 (584052)
09-29-2010 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Artemis Entreri
09-29-2010 1:30 PM


For a start
Here is small sample of mobbing violence supporters of slavery, egged on by their Southern backers, used to suppress free speech as guaranteed under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America:
The order is place, action, response, verdict (often under intimidation).
July 20, 1833 Jackson County, Mo. Evening and Morning Star Print shop destroyed, forced to move Recovered minor property damages
Oct. 21, 1835 Boston The Liberator Office ransacked, editor assaulted Editor cited for fomenting riot
Oct. 21, 1835 Utica, N.Y. Oneida Standard and Democrat Type thrown into street Grand jury refuses to indict member of mob
July 12, 1836 Cincinnati Philanthropist Press destroyed Nothing
July 21, 1836 St. Louis Observer Print shop damaged One person acquitted of breach of peace
July 24, 1836 Alton, Ill. Observer Press tossed in river Nothing
July 30, 1836 Cincinnati Philanthropist Print shop damaged, press thrown in river Recovered property damages
Aug. 21, 1837 Alton, Ill. Observer Press destroyed Trial ended inconclusively
Sept. 21, 1837 Alton, Ill. Observer Press destroyed Nothing
Nov. 7, 1837 Alton, Ill. Observer Press destroyed, editor killed Attackers and defenders acquitted of riot
May 17, 1838 Philadelphia Pennsylvania Freeman Print shop destroyed in general riot Property damages recovered
Sept. 3, 1841 Cincinnati Philanthropist Print shop destroyed in general riot Nothing
April 1843 Peoria, Ill. Register Intimidation ends coverage of abolitionism Nothing
Aug. 18, 1845 Lexington, Ky. True American Print shop dismantled Property damages recovered
Sept. 1847 Cambridge, Ohio Clarion of Freedom Paper forced to move Nothing
April 18—20, 1848 Washington, D.C. National Era Mob threatened editor Nothing
Aug. 1851 Newport, Ky. News Print shop burned Nothing
April 14, 1855 Parkville, Mo. Industrial Luminary Press and type thrown in river Property damages recovered
May 21, 1856 Lawrence, Kans. Territory Free State and Herald of Freedom Presses destroyed, editor detained Nothing
Oct. 28—29, 1859 Newport, Ky. Free South Press damaged Grand jury indicted rioters, reverses self
Source: Page not found | History Cooperative
The internet is wimpy in this respect, there is a lot more. It's called books.
Come Saturday, we (likely meaning I) will discuss the suppression of free speech in the antebellum South (as in deep South).
Let's Rock!
Edited by anglagard, : Damn, gettin' old, forgot source
Edited by anglagard, : Saturday's discussion

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-29-2010 1:30 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 84 of 193 (584466)
10-02-2010 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Artemis Entreri
09-30-2010 10:04 AM


Potty Mouth
Artemis Entreri aka Potty Mouth writes:
LOL why is it always some jackass from TX of all places pulling this shit? Fucking Steers and Queers. So which are you: nutless, or a cocksuker?
eat shit mother fucker.
The truth hurts and evidently too much truth hurts some so much, the reptilian brain kicks in.
Thanks for making my case for me.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Artemis Entreri, posted 09-30-2010 10:04 AM Artemis Entreri has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 89 of 193 (584512)
10-02-2010 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Blue Jay
10-01-2010 4:56 PM


Incompetence - aka the American Way of War
Bluejay writes:
We've subtlely switched from talking about whether the Southern cause was legitimately based on principles to talking about why they were unsuccessful.
Your arguments seem to be leading to the conclusion that the war and its outcome were the result of the practical failures of the Confederacy in matters of politics, and their unwillingness to concede these practical failures.
Had it been Bismarck, Roon, and Moltke instead of Lincoln, Halleck, and {insert name of favorite idiot Union general here}, I would have given the Confederacy about three months, and even that is probably generous.
Had it been Napoleon, Talleyrand, and Nay - two months.
Had it been Santa Ana - hello CSA today - evidently potty mouth's wet dream.
Then again had it been Lopez of Paraguay, there would be no USA.
Democracy is not necessarily the best system available in wartime, but as the aforementioned Bismarck said "there is a providence that protects drunks, children, idiots, and the USA."

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Blue Jay, posted 10-01-2010 4:56 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 90 of 193 (584515)
10-02-2010 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Dr Adequate
10-02-2010 1:50 AM


Re: It's all relative
Dr Adequate writes:
No, they lost because the North kicked their butts. Their practical failure was in fact a practical failure, not a moral failure.
Unfortunately for all involved, the North sure took their time about it.
I agree with you, be it state's rights or suppression of first amendment rights, it all goes back to the issue of slavery as the overriding cause.
I also add that IMO your performance in this thread has been exemplary.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-02-2010 1:50 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 951 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 99 of 193 (584671)
10-03-2010 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by DevilsAdvocate
10-03-2010 8:48 AM


Re: The Morality of States' Rights
DevilsAdvocate writes:
Slavery was the catalyst for the Civil War (or as the Southern extremists call it, "The War of Northern Aggression") it provided the impetus to begin the war in the first place. That is the South was bitter and indignant at the self-righteous North for the North telling them to get rid of their #1 economic source, aka slave labor in the cotton fields and other crops, In addition this free slave labor made many of these Southerners, especially the politically activated ones, rather wealthy and very reluctant to give it up.
Don't forget, the South demanded that any and all talk of abolition be suppressed, , not just in the South but the North as well, regardless of the First Amendment.
After all, the supporters of slavery demanded the death penalty for anyone in the entire USA who stated slavery was morally wrong.
I still have the goods on this, just haven't supplied the references because I have not felt the need now that potty mouth is gone, at least for now.
However, the North didn't really hold that much of a morally high ground either in the cause of abolition, as the majority who went to war with the south DID NOT do it because they wanted to free the blacks in the south. Many did it because of patriotic, peer pressures and other reasons to keep the union together as well as to protect their own interests.
A succinct and IMO true observation, given what I have read.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-03-2010 8:48 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2010 11:18 PM anglagard has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024