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Author Topic:   Cause of Civil War
dwise1
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Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 44 of 193 (584263)
10-01-2010 1:58 AM


In the matter of slavery, we have seen many speeches citing slavery as an important issue to the South. For most of the 1800's leading up to the Civil War, slavery was an important issue that came up repeatedly. There was an eternal struggle in the US Senate to keep either side, Free or Slave, from gaining greater representation (every state, regardless of population size, has two senators), so new states entered into the Union in pairs, one free and one slave, within a year of each other. Before Missouri, the Mason-Dixon line determined whether a new state would be slave or free, but the 1820 Missouri Comprise complicated that. The politics leading up to the Nebraska-Kansas Act really are complicated.
My family history ties in with Kansas. In 1854, the Kansas Territory was opened up to white settlement. The Nebraska-Kansas Act allowed that a vote by the territory's population would determine whether the new state would be slave or free. As a result, pro- and anti-slavery organizations in the North and in the South recruited settlers for the Kansas Territory. For the North, there was the New England Immigrant Aid Society. By the time their first parties arrived in the Kansas Territory, they found that the Southerners had gotten there first and had settled closest to the eastern border, so the New England Immigrant Aid Society party continued westward to found the cities of Topeka and Lawrence, both of which later drew attacks from the pro-slavery forces.
My great-great-grandfather, Louis Wies, arrived from Baden, Germany, via Le Havre, France, at New Orleans on 25 May 1854. He was part of a massive emigration of Germans following the failed 1848 Revolution, after which about a quarter of a million Germans emigrated every year. Given the conditions of near-slavery back home, those new German immigrants were fiercely anti-slavery. He married an Irish girl, Anna Bridget Hastings, that same year of 1854 in St. Louis and then some time before Sep 1856 had arrived in Lawrence, KS, for the birth of their first children, the first white twins born in Kansas, Louis and Sarah. At some point before the 1860 census, the family had changed its name to Wise -- by family tradition, very shortly after his arrival in New Orleans; also, by family tradition, he hated the Jews, so we chuckle at him for having anglicized to a typically Jewish name.
That era before and into the Civil War was called "Bleeding Kansas" for the near-constant raids and fighting between pro- and anti-slavery factions. On 21 Aug 1863, during Quantrill's raid on Lawrence, my great-great-grandfather was shot through the heart while he held his 2-year-old son in his arms. His son was struck in the head and he and his father were added to the pile of the dead in the middle of the street and sentries were posted. During the night, sentries heard a child crying. That child was my great-grandfather, whose head had only been grazed by the bullet that had killed his father (he died sixty-odd years later, insane, possibly due to lead poisoning from that bullet). So, you see, I nearly didn't make it here tonight.
So regardless of what each Confederate state said, the slavery issue predominated US politics leading up to the Civil War. The only things I can say on their behalf is that I seem to recall part of the Constitution that stated that any state that wanted to leave the Union would be free to do so (the last time I re-enlisted, I was given a copy of the Constitution, but I cannot put my hands on it right at this moment).
But regarding 1865, I would indirectly quote a historian who noted that in that year, "United States of America" changed from plural to singular.
Edited by dwise1, : Added link to the German 1848 Revolutions, the turning-point of German history where Germany failed to turn
Edited by dwise1, : Topeka and Lawrence
Edited by dwise1, : the Jewish connection

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 10-01-2010 11:06 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5987
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 176 of 193 (890880)
01-11-2022 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
01-11-2022 11:37 AM


Re: Could it happen again?
... apart from the Lord Himself?
Your "the Lord Himself" has never personally told you anything, regardless of however many voices you have heard in your head. As I seem to recall, you just get "feelings", not voices. Feelings which agree with what you want, which makes your "the Lord Himself" a personal sockpuppet saying what you want it to say. Even when it contradicts what the Bible clearly says that Jesus had clearly taught.
The pushback you keep getting is because you claim to follow Jesus and listen to him while at the same time refuse to listen to what Jesus said through the Bible (the basis for that All-Mighty Tradition that you were recently idolizing).
 
ABE:
Just because you have an aversion to the word, "woke", is no reason to refuse to wake up to your own hypocrisy.
Edited by dwise1, : ABE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 01-11-2022 11:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5987
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(5)
Message 180 of 193 (890884)
01-11-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Phat
01-11-2022 11:44 AM


Re: Could it happen again?
And the issues for which reparations are being called for are by no means limited only to slavery as the discussion here keeps veering towards.
More than a century of domestic terrorism directed against black individuals and communities (including Greenwood District, OK, AKA "The Black Wall Street" 1921, Occee, FL, 1922), imposing poverty through redlining creating ghetti with crumbling infrastructure (lead-tainted water anyone?), lending policies forcing subprime mortgages on blacks and other non-whites keeping those families from generating generational wealth thus leaving them far behind, a plethora of discriminatory laws designed to incarcerate far more blacks (eg, sundown laws making it a crime for them to still be in town or the county after dark, neglecting to step off the sidewalk to make way for whites to go by, using the wrong public facilities or sitting in the wrong seats, etc), Jim Crow laws designed to keep blacks from voting, etc. School to jail disciplinary actions. The current drive across the country by state legislatures to keep blacks from voting, some even going so far as empowering GOP legislatures to throw out election results and replace them with what they want.
The very first step in reparations would be to make the states just stop that stupid shit! After that, clean up the mess caused by more than a century of malfeasance. Then work to help the communities recover.
Just in case the point wasn't noted, we're not talking about some wrong done in the distant past (a few decades short of two centuries ago) "not by us nor our own personal ancestors" (German immigrants tended strongly to anti-slavery and mine was killed in the infamous raid on the abolitionist town of Lawrence). Rather the point is that the wrong is still being done in the present by us and we are collectively working hard to do far more wrong. Stop that stupid shit! And clean up this mess!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 01-11-2022 11:44 AM Phat has not replied

  
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