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Author Topic:   Shouldn't Churches Learn from Deconversion Stories?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 17 of 28 (642198)
11-26-2011 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
10-01-2010 6:51 PM


Belief vs Reality
AZPaul3 writes:
there is only one "reason" to be an atheist. We do not believe. This is what is in (or lacking in) one's heart. Unlike religious indoctrination it cannot be forced. As you yourself well know, when one loses faith ones core morality does not change. Only the perceived incentive to be "moral" changes from external to internal, which, I would argue, is where it always was anyway.
I do not think there can be a "wrong" reason to leave the world of faith behind.
What about the need for belief? To me, belief is hope. Reassurance. I'll admit, however, that it can be fantasy. My hope is that my belief does not conflict with known logic, reason, and reality.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 20 of 28 (643049)
12-04-2011 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by NoNukes
11-27-2011 9:24 AM


Shouldnt Churches Learn Period?
NoNukes writes:
Churches are not likely to change their core message and character but I have seen some fundamentalists Churches back off on some of their more silly, non-Biblical rituals and practices, particularly when they notices that all of the younger members have bolted.
It all boils down to the core message that is agreed upon.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 21 of 28 (724157)
04-14-2014 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by dwise1
10-01-2010 1:18 AM


Its De Conversion, Stupid
Instead of believing that their fallible human theology is infallible, they need to realize that if their theology teaches them something that clearly is not true (eg, earth no older than 10,000 years), then it is not God that is wrong, but rather their own theology and that that theology needs to be corrected. I view their inflexible refusal to admit that their theology could be wrong is a major cause of deconversion.
Upon reexamining this topic, I note that it asks good questions.
What can I (we) learn from talking with people who once believed as I do yet moved on? Ultimately, by examining the faith (or lack of) among others, we can learn more about ourselves.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

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 Message 22 by Taq, posted 04-14-2014 5:13 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 23 of 28 (729907)
06-21-2014 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taq
04-14-2014 5:13 PM


Re: Its De Conversion, Stupid
Once I was out of the house and on my own, I just quit going to church. I felt dishonest pretending to believe in something I no longer believed. I think my family could see it in my face, and in the 20 years since they have never really pushed me for an answer as to why I no longer attend. I think they know the answer. However, it hasn't change my relationship at all with the rest of my family for which I count myself lucky. Others have been pushed away from their families after they left the faith of their family.
My family all have their individual beliefs, and we never let our beliefs get in the way of our love for each other.
I would not call my experience in life de-conversion so much as I see it as reconversion. I believe the way I do through introspection, comparing beliefs with reality, and to a degree through what I hope is true.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

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 Message 24 by ringo, posted 06-21-2014 12:21 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 25 of 28 (729913)
06-21-2014 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
06-21-2014 12:21 PM


Re: Its De Conversion, Stupid
Hopefully, we evolve every day. I prefer to think of it as recreation. (RE-Creation.)
I have learned a lot from many different people----especially the ones with whom I disagree. You can't learn much in a room full of sheeple(one of Buzsaws favorite words )
I realize full well that many of my beliefs are illogical and don't make a lot of sense. There are two reasons I hold on to them.
1) Its a heart issue, not a rational logical mind issue. Im in a love affair with the Creator of all seen and unseen.
2) The experiences that I have had confirm my bias towards belief.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18333
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 27 of 28 (729917)
06-21-2014 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
06-21-2014 4:52 PM


Re: Its De Conversion, Stupid
We are called believers and not knowers for a reason.
Knowers are entirely evidence based. If they don't know---they will not bother with belief.
Another element of deconversion has to do with how well you accept and/or bond with the group. Its not always about rejecting the belief in God...sometimes its rejecting the mindset of the people in the group.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

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 Message 26 by ringo, posted 06-21-2014 4:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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