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Author Topic:   Can You define God?
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 151 of 318 (675296)
10-10-2012 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Thugpreacha
10-08-2012 5:49 AM


Re: IF as Objectivity
We are talking only of a Creator of all seen and unseen. We are not assigning this Creator any character or image beyond this.

Well shit, is there any other characteristic or image that you left out? "Creator of everything you can see and not see" pretty much covers it all.

This, however, does not prove that it only exists in the imagination of one or many.

It has to only exist in your imagination if you've never witnessed it and it is "unknowable". YOU (and other human beings) are the only one's assigning it it's characteristics, out of sheer imagination, then you make the claim that hey maybe we nailed it. You're taking guesses at best.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2012 5:49 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 152 of 318 (675297)
10-10-2012 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by jar
10-09-2012 2:26 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Human belief is enough to define a god.

If that's the case then god is a purely imagined concept. In fact the word pretty much becomes meaningless.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by jar, posted 10-09-2012 2:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 9:58 AM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 160 of 318 (675340)
10-10-2012 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by jar
10-10-2012 9:58 AM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
It is no more meaningless than any other human construct.

Can you give me an example of another one that you would say is just as meaningless?

At worst it is fantasy and at best it is an approximation.

An approximation of what though? If it can be anything you want it to be then what the flip are you describing?

...descriptions and definitions are based on this natural world.

You are using your imagination to describe and define something YOU imagined. What limits are you talking about?

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 9:58 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:25 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 161 of 318 (675341)
10-10-2012 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
10-10-2012 1:01 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Well, the question of GOD's existence is still open however I believe that there is a very high probability that GOD, if GOD exists, will be entirely different than anything I can imagine.

You have imagined it would be a creator of everything we see and do not see. Do you now believe it will be something different than that?

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:01 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:30 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 166 of 318 (675347)
10-10-2012 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by jar
10-10-2012 1:30 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I believe that GOD is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, but that is simply my belief and has nothing to do with what GOD might actually be.

Here's where my brain gets twisted:

If you believe god to be the creator of EVERYTHING, what else can he be? Obviously he can create anything else. You and Phat seem to cover it all with your concepts.

If you are wrong, as you say it may be possible, then it means god gets demoted to a creator of only some things, or only a few things.

That makes no sense to me. How do you make that make sense to you?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:30 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:44 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 170 of 318 (675352)
10-10-2012 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jar
10-10-2012 1:25 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
Sure, unicorns or love or honor or humor.

But a unicorn is a horse with a horn on it. It's NOT "anything you want it to be."

Love, honor, and humor are very real chemical reactions in your body that can be measured when experienced. The wordss we use are simply us giving those chemical reactions a name. But there is a clear distinction between love and hate, or funny and serious, honor and dishonor - they are NOT anything you want it to be.

Electron, love, honor, humor, are all things experienced by human beings be it by listening, looking at it, or having chemical reactions. God does not fit that bill.

God, as you describe it being "anything you want it to be" loses all meaning with that definition.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:25 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:53 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 172 of 318 (675355)
10-10-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by jar
10-10-2012 1:53 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I can tell you about my beliefs related to GOD but what I tell you reflects nothing but my beliefs and not what GOD might be.

But you did define it, you said god can be anything you want it to be. That is you defining what god might be.

And as you say, god can be anything, and as such if god can be anything the entire concept has no meaning.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:53 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:19 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 173 of 318 (675356)
10-10-2012 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by jar
10-10-2012 1:44 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I'm not at all sure that it does make sense, but it's the best I can do.

Yeah but, what are you actually doing?

You said you believe god is the creator of everything, but you could be wrong. That means god might just be the creator of a few things, or nothing at all. Who knows? This whole train of thought falls apart.

You said god can be anything at all, but then claim you can't define it. That contradicts itself.

You claim god is unknowable yet, still call it a god by your definition. If it's "unknowable" then what are you even describing? Nothing really. Claiming both contradicts itself too.

I agree that it doesn't make much sense, but I don't think you've done anything other confuse us.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 1:44 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:20 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 176 of 318 (675360)
10-10-2012 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by jar
10-10-2012 2:19 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I said that I cannot define GOD.

But jar, YOU are the only one here saying GOD is not God or god/s. You have clearly defined this word: GOD

You said GOD is the creator of everything - seen/unseen. That IS your definition.

And again I will point out the contradiction in that you also claim that GOD is unknowable, meaning, it is unknowable if GOD is different from God or god/s and if in fact GOD is the creator of all things.

You've done nothing here really, other than confuse terms and contradict yourself.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:19 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:49 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 178 of 318 (675362)
10-10-2012 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by jar
10-10-2012 2:49 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
I believe I've been very consistent in saying that is simply my belief and NOT what GOD actually is.

I get that it's your belief, I wasn't trying to state otherwise. My point is that your belief contradicts itself and gets very confusing. Also, you define the term by saying GOD is different from God or god/s. You also define the term by saying GOD is unknowable.

I mean, how do you even know that? Well, because you are defining what GOD is. How else would you know so much about this unknowable GOD if you didn't?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 2:49 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:17 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 180 of 318 (675364)
10-10-2012 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by jar
10-10-2012 3:17 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
GOD, if GOD exists, really is different than being natural.

How do you know any of that if you're also saying you don't know anything about it?

It sounds absurd.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:34 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 182 of 318 (675366)
10-10-2012 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by jar
10-10-2012 3:34 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
But what are you doing?

It's not that it's wrong, it's that you're not really saying anything that can be right or wrong. It's just a mess of words with no direction or real point.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:34 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 10-10-2012 3:43 PM onifre has not yet responded
 Message 184 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-11-2012 1:42 AM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 196 of 318 (675461)
10-11-2012 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Thugpreacha
10-11-2012 1:42 AM


Re: Right or Wrong
When it comes to subjective beliefs, there is no absolute right or wrong involved.

I didn't bring up the right or wrong scenario, jar did. I'm just clearing up that fact that he hasn't presented anything that can be considered right or wrong. It's just a mess of words that can barely be understood, and clearly contradict themselves.

If you have a set of beliefs that you're trying to convey to someone at the very least they should make sense.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-11-2012 1:42 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 197 of 318 (675462)
10-11-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by jar
10-11-2012 10:24 AM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
The answer is the difference between actually being the thing and simply being asserted to be the thing

But you are not showing the distinction between your method of arriving at your assertion: GOD and the method used to arrive at the other assertions: God, god/s - they are ALL human constructs and caricatures in an attempt to explain the unexplainable.

All the Gods and gods are just that, human attempts to explain the unexplainable.

But GOD, if GOD exists, would be the reality.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't get how you changing the way you spell GOD from God and gods makes any difference. You all arrive at your assertions in the same way, guessing.

Saying "GOD, if GOD exists, would be reality" is as meaningless as saying "God created everything we can see and not see."

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by jar, posted 10-11-2012 10:24 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by jar, posted 10-11-2012 4:20 PM onifre has responded

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 1236 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 203 of 318 (675501)
10-11-2012 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by jar
10-11-2012 4:20 PM


Re: GOD is NOT a god
But I did show my method, I defined the three terms.

I know. Point is you don't show a distinction between the methods of arriving at the assertions.

If you want to show a clear distinction bewteen GOD, God and gods then you'll have to show how you arrive at that distinction with some separate type of method.

You made the claim God and gods are assertions to explain the unexplainable and GOD was different. How did you arrive at that and how is it different from how others arrived at God and gods?

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by jar, posted 10-11-2012 4:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by jar, posted 10-11-2012 7:12 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
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