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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 391 of 423 (818426)
08-28-2017 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 390 by Phat
08-28-2017 8:03 AM


Re: Union 101
Phat writes:

You seem to want to put the most pressure on the middle rather than where it belongs---on the top.


Why does it belong at the top? It's YOUR job that's threatened by low wages, so why don't you bear any responsibility for the solution? Putting the blame on somebody else and expecting somebody else to pay is what caused the problem in the first place.

Phat writes:

In my mind, you would advocate pressure more on the 15% to share their wealth before even addressing the 5% with the lions share.


How do you propose to "address" the ones with the lions' share? They can spend a lot of money on accountants and lawyers to avoid paying. Why should we spend more money on our own accountants and lawyers to try to get them to pay more? It's just a vicious circle.

The sensible solution is for the people who use the services to pay for them. Why is it such a bad idea to help them be able to pay?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Phat, posted 08-28-2017 8:03 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14590
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 392 of 423 (870731)
01-24-2020 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by ringo
08-12-2017 11:44 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Let's look at our American dream...now more like an evolving nightmare:

I'm not sure what Trump has done except lower tax rates on the wealthy and increase global warming through domestic fossil fuel production.

The world is ever-changing and ever-growing. Now that more and more countries are coming up, there are no shills for the carny barkers of capitalism to exploit...except their own middle class. And you still want the middle to pay taxes and give our two mites to the poor.

Sustainable? Perhaps in a liberal kum ba yah sense. But hardly preferable.

And note one thing on the graph above: The latest climb started with 9-11-2001 and has not reversed course since. Trump appears to want to continue to fuel the military-industrial complex and screw the debt. But I worry.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by ringo, posted 08-12-2017 11:44 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 11:06 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 394 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 11:20 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 393 of 423 (870734)
01-24-2020 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Phat
01-24-2020 10:44 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:

I'm not sure what Trump has done except lower tax rates on the wealthy and increase global warming through domestic fossil fuel production.


Rule 1 in the Voter's Handbook: "Never trust anybody whp promises to lower taxes."

Phat writes:

And you still want the middle to pay taxes and give our two mites to the poor.


That's what Jesus wants.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 394 of 423 (870736)
01-24-2020 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by Phat
01-24-2020 10:44 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:

I'm not sure what Trump has done except lower tax rates on the wealthy and increase global warming through domestic fossil fuel production.

Me! Me! I know!

Trump has removed the prohibitions on dumping pollutants into our streams and marshes, removed the ability of States to mandate higher fuel economy, removed access to health care for many of our poor, removed air quality standards, removed the emphasis on moving to more energy efficient lighting and is trying to remove the requirement for toilets to waste less water.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 10:44 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:23 AM jar has responded
 Message 396 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:26 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14590
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 395 of 423 (870737)
01-24-2020 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by jar
01-24-2020 11:20 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
OK jar, what can be done? The evidence clearly shows the following:
1) Rising Public Debt
2) Extensive Global Warming
3) Continued Overpopulation.
And here we have ringo claiming that Jesus wants our last two mites.

I suppose if I hold one back i will get struck dead like Ananias.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 11:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by ringo, posted 01-24-2020 11:33 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 399 by NosyNed, posted 01-24-2020 11:38 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 400 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 11:38 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14590
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 396 of 423 (870738)
01-24-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by jar
01-24-2020 11:20 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Trump has removed the prohibitions on dumping pollutants into our streams and marshes, removed the ability of States to mandate higher fuel economy, removed access to health care for many of our poor, removed air quality standards, removed the emphasis on moving to more energy-efficient lighting and is trying to remove the requirement for toilets to waste less water.
This means that the Republicans lie when they claim global warming is a hox. They know damn well that if we drive this car until the wheels fall off many will die. they don't care. They want to escape the wrath with their heirs and the rest of the world be damned. And they don't want any government telling them what to do...since now one of them Trump--has the guts and chutzpah to boldly trash the planet.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 11:20 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by NosyNed, posted 01-24-2020 11:30 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8948
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 397 of 423 (870739)
01-24-2020 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:26 AM


Yea you're right
This means that the Republicans lie when they claim global warming is a hox. They know damn well that if we drive this car until the wheels fall off many will die. they don't care. They want to escape the wrath with their heirs and the rest of the world be damned. And they don't want any government telling them what to do...since now one of them Trump--has the guts and chutzpah to boldly trash the planet.

Yupe, we have an example of that here in Marc9000. He knows that CO2 is a green house gas and car exhaust is poison but feels that his precious freedoms are infringed if he forced to act as if he gives a flying F about anyone else or their children (or even his own). There is great evil loose in the world and it's name doesn't start with an S.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:26 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 398 of 423 (870740)
01-24-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:23 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:

And here we have ringo claiming that Jesus wants our last two mites.


It's the Bible's claim.

Phat writes:

I suppose if I hold one back i will get struck dead like Ananias.


Instead of mocking what the Bible says, why don't you actually ADDRESS the quotes? (in an appropriate thread.)

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:23 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8948
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 399 of 423 (870742)
01-24-2020 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:23 AM


What to do?
It gets harder each day of delay but things are happening that might save us. When I think it through I'm inclined to get pessimistic though since we have so many individuals dragging their feet and gnashing teeth.
But the good news is that even with Trump loving his good, clean coal the coal fired plants are shutting down just like they were before him because they are uneconomic.
While efforts are made to stall the rising tide of electric vehicles they are already cheaper in the long tern (if you can afford the high up front costs) and so are pushing out gas burners across the globe (at the premium end). I just spent 1500 on maintenance for my Audi which is about what I expect in cheaper years (it was almost twice that last year and ALL on stuff that won't happen on my Tesla) almost all on stuff that my next car won't need. At most I will do that just one more time. Then I will be free.
Power production has been shifting strongly to natural gas but now even that is starting to lose the race. As you are aware, money talks and renewables are starting to talk very loudly.
We should be pushing it much harder to make the timelines we need but economics is at least shoving us in the right direction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:23 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 400 of 423 (870743)
01-24-2020 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Phat
01-24-2020 11:23 AM


Solutions
We can raise taxes and cut stupid spending to lower the debt.
We can try to at least ameliorate the effects of climate change since we were too stupid to avoid it.
We can reduce population growth either through education, disease, war or famine. The first is difficult and takes time, the latter are easy and proven effective.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 01-24-2020 11:23 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 10:43 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14590
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 401 of 423 (870823)
01-25-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by jar
01-24-2020 11:38 AM


Re: Solutions
I look at this realistically. The people will never form a consensus unless the ocean is lapping at their front door. Our politics is always divided...how would it unify on this issue?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by jar, posted 01-24-2020 11:38 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by NosyNed, posted 01-25-2020 10:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 403 by jar, posted 01-25-2020 11:24 AM Phat has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8948
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 402 of 423 (870824)
01-25-2020 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
01-25-2020 10:43 AM


Realistically
I look at this realistically. The people will never form a consensus unless the ocean is lapping at their front door. Our politics is always divided...how would it unify on this issue?

Yea, 'cause I have kids I try to be a cock-eyed optimist but realistically we are doomed. My plan B is to die by the time it gets bad.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 10:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 403 of 423 (870836)
01-25-2020 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
01-25-2020 10:43 AM


Re: Solutions
It seems much of the rest of the world has found a consensus; it is only the really ugly Americans who are so deplorably handicapped.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 10:43 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:48 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14590
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 404 of 423 (870868)
01-25-2020 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 403 by jar
01-25-2020 11:24 AM


Re: Solutions
I don't see China doing anything. And they have the most people by far. America is not the world's only glutton...just historically the most notable...not so much anymore. We get to share the blame.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by jar, posted 01-25-2020 11:24 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by jar, posted 01-25-2020 5:15 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 406 by ringo, posted 01-26-2020 1:37 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32913
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 405 of 423 (870885)
01-25-2020 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Phat
01-25-2020 3:48 PM


Re: Solutions
Then you are simply not looking.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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