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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
ringo
Member
Posts: 17919
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 406 of 423 (870917)
01-26-2020 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Phat
01-25-2020 3:48 PM


Re: Solutions
Phat writes:

We get to share the blame.


How productive is that?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34693
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 407 of 423 (870919)
01-26-2020 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by NosyNed
01-25-2020 10:47 AM


Re: Realistically
Yea, 'cause I have kids I try to be a cock-eyed optimist but realistically we are doomed. My plan B is to die by the time it gets bad.

This is SO silly. Every such prophecy of doom by climate change has failed and yet you all go on expecting it to come based on the latest prophecy.

Lots of Americans are thinking about how to reduce the problem, and America is the most inventive when it comes to anything like that. There isn't the urgency the doomsayers keep predicting but we still want to do what we can to reduce the problem and Americans are in fact doing it, in various ways out of the public eye. I hear discussions of these things on the radio all the time. blaming America is just the usual Hate-America Leftist stuff, really because we ARE good, because we are successful. It's just envy that makes the sluggard nations hate us, and the American Leftists have no excuse.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by NosyNed, posted 01-25-2020 10:47 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by ringo, posted 01-26-2020 2:07 PM Faith has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17919
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 408 of 423 (870921)
01-26-2020 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by Faith
01-26-2020 1:48 PM


Re: Realistically
Faith writes:

It's just envy that makes the sluggard nations hate us....


We neither hate you nor envy you. We're often baffled by your idiocy.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 1:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:25 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34693
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 409 of 423 (870925)
01-26-2020 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by ringo
01-26-2020 2:07 PM


Re: Realistically
Canada isn't what I had in mind as a sluggard nation, but you do raise an issue I've wondered about before. Canada has the same freedoms we have, right? Why isn't there as much inventiveness among you as there has traditionally been in America? Have you thought about it? Do you have an explanation? I mean America has produced lots of inventors who just plug away in their basements or garages or whatever and invent this or that. Probably lots more who aren't successful than are but still there's a mentality toward invention there. I don't really see why other free nations wouldn't promote the same inventiveness.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by ringo, posted 01-26-2020 2:07 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by ringo, posted 01-26-2020 2:31 PM Faith has responded
 Message 412 by frako, posted 01-26-2020 4:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 02-01-2020 4:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17919
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 410 of 423 (870927)
01-26-2020 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
01-26-2020 2:25 PM


Re: Realistically
Faith writes:

Why isn't there as much inventiveness among you as their has traditionally been in America?


What makes you think there hasn't been? Try googling "Canadian inventions". Wikipedia has a nice list.

Faith writes:

I don't really see why other free nations wouldn't promote the same inventiveness.


Well, we don't brag about it as loudly.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:33 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34693
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 411 of 423 (870928)
01-26-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by ringo
01-26-2020 2:31 PM


Re: Realistically
OK good, I'm glad to hear it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by ringo, posted 01-26-2020 2:31 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2866
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 412 of 423 (870939)
01-26-2020 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
01-26-2020 2:25 PM


Re: Realistically
World Intellectual Property Indicators - Wikipedia

LMAO poor faith so deluded, you really believe your own hype.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13695
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 413 of 423 (871377)
02-01-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Faith
01-26-2020 2:25 PM


Making America Great Again
Faith writes:

I mean America has produced lots of inventors who just plug away in their basements or garages or whatever and invent this or that. Probably lots more who aren't successful than are but still, there's a mentality toward invention there. I don't really see why other free nations wouldn't promote the same inventiveness.

I see this as more a phenomenon of the storied past. America still has its inventors, chiefly in the information and data technology realm...but these inventors are also as prevalent in China, India, and even Indonesia. they just don't have the support of their governments as ours do here.

I fear that the revival of patriotism and small business inventiveness that the populists have reawakened is not the same as America in the heyday of the fifties and early sixties. Reagan stirred it up too, but at the cost of beginning the enormous debts which we see today. One fact on the debt (and deficits) that is ignored is the fact that back in the day, we only ran up the debt during times of war and repaid it in peacetime. Now, the evidence shows that we are running up the debt now...in times of relative prosperity,m and putting it out of reach of ever getting repaid. jar always claims that the bill gets paid, but the evidence shows that the debt is larger than it is possible to pay back. I'm not sure what the thinktanks conclude regarding this inconvenient truth, but we will likely know before another ten years has elapsed.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Faith, posted 01-26-2020 2:25 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13695
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 414 of 423 (871432)
02-02-2020 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
10-06-2010 6:11 PM


Re: Aberration Period
jar writes:

The Aberration was that period after WWII when the productivity of almost every developed nation except the US had been destroyed.
For a period of almost fifty years, the US had a significant advantage; even the very materials to rebuild the infrastructure of Japan, Korea, and western Europe came from the US. In addition, the political regimes in the Soviet Union and its satellites and in China held those peoples back.

The one real industrial power in the world was the US and no other nation really competed.

But that had not always been the case. Japan, Germany, Italy, France and in particular the British Empire had been equal competitors before WWII, and in many ways maybe even more advanced than the US.

The Aberration was a result of the ramped-up capacity of the US as well as the destruction of the economic and industrial capabilities of much of the other industrial nations.

A big problem for the US though is that kids were taught that the Aberration was the norm, that the US was the Top Dog and so they had an inviolable right to their prosperity without competition.

Revisiting this topic in light of our recent discussions over the possibility of a global collapse of currencies.

I have been watching this now for a while, and though I still don't understand precisely the implications, we can discuss it.

It appears that part of the current global trade wars and competition for resources, in general, involves the US Dollar vs Other means of supportable currency. I have read where some analysts believe that the next "bubble" that will burst is currency value itself. The Global Pool of Money is by now well observed, and in fact is being used by investors parking their assets. First ioff, I'm not clear on the effect of printing extra dollars, but it is still a problem. It is one way that we stimulate the economy to get out of the 2008 financial crises, a process that took over ten years. Now, however, if another bubble were to burst, we can no longer use the quanitative easing solution that we used last time. I fear that the bill will get paid through many people losing their assets(asses) in the next correction.

I did learn some basics, however.

I read an article, US Economy Collapse, What Would Happen and How to Prepare which appears to be written by a reputable author who has experience in the financial field. Some of what she teaches:

quote:
What Would Happen in an Economic Collapse
If the economy collapses, you would lose access to credit. Banks would close. Demand would outstrip the supply of food, gas, and other necessities. If the collapse affected local governments and utilities, then water and electricity would no longer be available. As people panic, they would revert to survival and self-defense modes. The economy would return to a traditional economy, where those who grow food barter for other services.

A U.S. economic collapse would create global panic. Demand for the dollar and U.S. Treasurys would plummet. Interest rates would skyrocket. Investors would rush to other currencies, such as the yuan, euro, or even gold. It would create not just inflation, but hyperinflation, as the dollar became dirt cheap.

How Close Are We to a Total Economic Collapse?
Any of the following seven scenarios could create an economic collapse.

  • If the U.S. dollar rapidly loses value, it would create hyperinflation.
  • A bank run could force banks to close or even go out of business, cutting off lending and even cash withdrawals.
  • The internet could become paralyzed with a super-virus, preventing emails and online transactions.
  • Terrorist attacks or a massive oil embargo could halt interstate trucking. Grocery stores would soon run out of food.
  • Widespread violence erupts across the nation. That could range from inner-city riots, a civil war, or a foreign military attack. It's possible that a combination of these events could overwhelm the government's ability to prevent or respond to a collapse.
  • In March 2019, the Federal Reserve warned that climate change could threaten the financial system.3 Extreme weather caused by climate change is forcing farms, utilities, and other companies to declare bankruptcy. As those loans go under, it will damage banks' balance sheets just like subprime mortgages did during the financial crisis. A study by Pennsylvania State University predicted that extreme weather in North America will increase 50% by 2100.4 It will cost the U.S. government $112 billion per year, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office.5
  • Natural disasters could cause a localized collapse. If Hurricane Irma had hit Miami, its damage would have been worse than Hurricane Katrina. If the 2019 polar vortex breakup had lasted weeks instead of days, cities would have shut down.6 Munich Re, the world's largest reinsurance firm, blamed global warming for $24 billion of losses in the California wildfires.7 It warned that insurance firms will have to raise premiums to cover rising costs from extreme weather. That could make insurance too expensive for most people.
    Some believe the Federal Reserve, the president, or an international conspiracy are driving the United States toward economic ruin. If that's the case, the economy could collapse in as little as a week. The economy is run on confidence that debts will be repaid, food and gas will be available when you need it, and that you'll get paid for this week's work. If a large enough piece of that stops for even several days, it creates a chain reaction that leads to a rapid collapse.
    Collapse Versus Crisis
    Be very clear that an economic crisis is not the same as an economic collapse. As painful as it was, the 2008 financial crisis was not a collapse. Millions of people lost jobs and homes, but basic services were still provided.
  • You seem to pass it all off as the idea that the US is nothing special and that Empires have risen and fallen throughout history. Only time will tell how we will behave should such crises manifest.

    By the way, look at how the giant pool of money is being spent:

    quote:
    The U.S. economy's size makes it resilient. It is highly unlikely that even these events could create a collapse. When necessary, the government can act quickly to avoid a total collapse.

    The Federal Reserve can avoid a financial collapse with a few phone calls. For example, it can use its contractionary monetary tools to tame hyperinflation. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation insures banks. There is little chance of a banking collapse similar to that in the 1930s.

    The president can release Strategic Oil Reserves to offset an oil embargo. Homeland Security can address a cyber threat.8 The U.S. military can respond to a terrorist attack, transportation stoppage, or rioting/civil war. In other words, most federal government programs are designed to prevent just such an economic collapse.

    But these strategies won't protect against the widespread and pervasive crises caused by climate change. Rising sea levels, depletion of fish stocks, and extreme weather are just some of the effects. If nothing is done, the World Bank warned that temperatures will increase by 4 C if nothing is done.9 That's when all the ice sheets in Greenland and West Antarctica would melt.10

     Sea levels would rise 33 feet, flooding every major coastal city. Once sea levels rise 10 feet, it would flood 12.3 million people. Seas would continue to rise by one foot per decade. That's too fast to allow humans to build anew. The damage would exceed $600 trillion, double the total wealth of everyone on the planet.11 That would shrink the global economy by 20% from what it is today. That's worse than the worst year of the Great Depression.


    And all of this doesn't even account for the belief of the Biblical Christians and the possibility that they will add to mass hysteria by thinking that the world is in fact ending. Perhaps the global Christian community will be wiser than the hypersensitive.


    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by jar, posted 10-06-2010 6:11 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 415 by jar, posted 02-02-2020 6:41 PM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 32165
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 415 of 423 (871434)
    02-02-2020 6:41 PM
    Reply to: Message 414 by Phat
    02-02-2020 4:07 PM


    Re: Aberration Period
    Phat writes:

    And all of this doesn't even account for the belief of the Biblical Christians and the possibility that they will add to mass hysteria by thinking that the world is in fact ending. Perhaps the global Christian community will be wiser than the hypersensitive.

    There is no evidence that any theocratic movement has ever been a solution other than through total domination and oppression of "them".


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 414 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 4:07 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 416 by Phat, posted 02-04-2020 4:19 PM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 13695
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 416 of 423 (871521)
    02-04-2020 4:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 415 by jar
    02-02-2020 6:41 PM


    Re: Aberration Period
    jar writes:

    There is no evidence that any theocratic movement has ever been a solution other than through total domination and oppression of "them".

    Christianity did become a tool of the State, and much of colonialism was justified through church approval(or silence). But is what you're saying that Paul himself began this trend or was it later once Christianity became politically approved?

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 415 by jar, posted 02-02-2020 6:41 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 417 by jar, posted 02-04-2020 4:42 PM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 32165
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.2


    (1)
    Message 417 of 423 (871522)
    02-04-2020 4:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 416 by Phat
    02-04-2020 4:19 PM


    the relevance of Christianity
    Phat writes:

    But is what you're saying that Paul himself began this trend or was it later once Christianity became politically approved?

    Christianity was totally irrelevant until Constantine.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 416 by Phat, posted 02-04-2020 4:19 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 418 by Phat, posted 02-04-2020 5:07 PM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 13695
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 418 of 423 (871524)
    02-04-2020 5:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 417 by jar
    02-04-2020 4:42 PM


    Re: the relevance of Christianity
    That would only be true if Jesus was simply human and had no impact. Which gets back to unprovable belief. I argue that the only reason the religion is even relevant today is due more to the power through Jesus than to the nationalism that pushes it.

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 417 by jar, posted 02-04-2020 4:42 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 419 by jar, posted 02-04-2020 7:04 PM Phat has responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 32165
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 419 of 423 (871530)
    02-04-2020 7:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
    02-04-2020 5:07 PM


    Re: the relevance of Christianity
    Phat writes:

    I argue that the only reason the religion is even relevant today is due more to the power through Jesus than to the nationalism that pushes it.

    No, you simply assert that over and over again yet offer absolutely no evidence to support that position. Religions as State Religions though have a long and detailed evidential trail showing their relevancy and effects.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 418 by Phat, posted 02-04-2020 5:07 PM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 420 by Phat, posted 02-05-2020 3:45 AM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 13695
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 420 of 423 (871538)
    02-05-2020 3:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 419 by jar
    02-04-2020 7:04 PM


    Re: the relevance of Christianity
    You are talking and responding as an observer rather than a participant. You are choosing to use logic, reason, and reality and ignoring the idea that you are a believer.

  • Have you personally felt anything from your religious times of individual or corporate prayer?
  • Do you believe that Jesus is with us today? (You will ask me to define what I mean...I just know it!)
  • What does the term believer (and belief) mean to you? How would one identify a believer? How many types and/or definitions could we come up with?

    “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 419 by jar, posted 02-04-2020 7:04 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 421 by Theodoric, posted 02-05-2020 8:34 AM Phat has not yet responded
     Message 422 by jar, posted 02-05-2020 9:15 AM Phat has not yet responded

      
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