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Author Topic:   The Global Warming Scam
Taz
Member (Idle past 1574 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 136 of 177 (597695)
12-23-2010 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Omnivorous
12-22-2010 4:05 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
But what's the reason for christians to be anti-environment? It seems to be against common sense, since the earth is supposedly god's gift to mankind. You don't trash a gift to you by someone you claim to care dearly. My sister gave me a painting that she painted a number of years ago. It's still hanging in our living room. You'd think that something as precious as the earth given to them by their creator ought to be cared more for by the the christians.

To me, environmentalism is a moral issue. We live in a first world country, so we are less impacted by polution and global warming. Most people in the world suffer on a whole other level because of what we have done to become this rich. This is a moral issue. It seems to me like it's common sense that the morally superior crowd (aka christians) should be the ones screaming their heads off to clean up the planet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Omnivorous, posted 12-22-2010 4:05 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by frako, posted 12-23-2010 1:24 PM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 139 by Omnivorous, posted 12-23-2010 2:42 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
misha
Member (Idle past 2910 days)
Posts: 69
From: Atlanta
Joined: 02-04-2010


Message 137 of 177 (597696)
12-23-2010 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by frako
12-22-2010 3:14 PM


When I taught highschool at a small, private, christian school I had my students read this essay.

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1969/JASA6-69White.html

White does a pretty good job of explaining how many christians have attempted to remove themselves from "creation." They have severe issues with Anthropocentism, believing that the world is about and revolves around them.

Some of my students responded well. Many just continued in their ways. Funny, these students also tended to make bigoted, hateful comments on subjects of which they had no knowledge.

Many christians have a sense of entitlement that the world has been given to them to do as they please and that they can destroy it if they want. I think some of it comes from the idea that if God made the world then he can just make another if they eff this one up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by frako, posted 12-22-2010 3:14 PM frako has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 138 of 177 (597698)
12-23-2010 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Taz
12-23-2010 1:14 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
The problem is with education on the matter, they do not believe or comprehend that we are f"#$% the planet up. They trust in the lord to fix these problems. And they feel insulted that the green revolution does not have the same faith in the lord to solve our mess for us.

The lack of education also leads to misunderstandings on the matter.
Like overpopulation because they do not think or read or simmilar they think we want to kill half of the population off by a lottery. While we only want measurements like china has extra tax on extra children. They think we want to stop the pumping of oil today no we want that more money goes in green technologies so we can drive without polluting. We do not want to close down the coal plants today we just do not want you to build more of them build solar, tidal, ... plants instead

That is the problem with Christians and that is why they are anti-environmental, propaganda, lack of education, and too much blind faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 1:14 PM Taz has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1250 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 139 of 177 (597700)
12-23-2010 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Taz
12-23-2010 1:14 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
Taz writes:

But what's the reason for christians to be anti-environment? It seems to be against common sense, since the earth is supposedly god's gift to mankind.

Yes.

In an OP from 2005, Message 1--"By their fruits shall ye know them"--I expressed the same puzzlement:

quote:
Why are they so anxious to despoil the earth? If God created this beautiful place and made us stewards of it, why are the Republican-identified Evangelicals/Creationists so ardent about valuing profit over conservation? Why are they so sanguine about the loss of entire species?

One would think this world would sparkle to them with the sacredness of their Creator, and every creature in it would be precious. Instead, they seem to delight in rolling back environmental protection laws, in proposing higher tolerances for mercury in their air and children, in profit over preservation, in war over peace.

Did God lard the earth with life so we could gleefully slaughter it?


A few months later, I had to note and applaud this in Message 34:

quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A group of 85 evangelical Christian leaders on Wednesday backed legislation opposed by the White House to cut carbon adioxide emissions, kicking off a campaign to mobilize religious conservatives to combat global warming.

The group which included mega-church pastors, Christian college presidents, religious broadcasters and writers, also unveiled a full-page advertisement to run in Thursday's New York Times and a television ad it hopes to screen nationally.

"With God's help, we can stop global warming for our kids, our world and our Lord," the television spot declared.


So, yeah, it's still bad. But I do think a growing number of young evangelicals are determined to stop killing the planet.

There is hope in that.


I know there's a balance, I see it when I swing past.
-J. Mellencamp

Real things always push back.
-William James


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Taz, posted 12-23-2010 1:14 PM Taz has not yet responded

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GDR
Member
Posts: 4983
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 140 of 177 (598895)
01-03-2011 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Omnivorous
12-23-2010 2:42 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
Actually Omni it is Christians who should be most concerned about the planet. Humans have been given the job of caring for the created world until God brings about re-creation according to Christian theology.

The problem with global warming it is difficult to know who to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkzNmWlCig8&feature=player...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Omnivorous, posted 12-23-2010 2:42 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 01-03-2011 3:44 PM GDR has responded
 Message 146 by Taz, posted 01-04-2011 2:14 PM GDR has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31451
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 141 of 177 (598896)
01-03-2011 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by GDR
01-03-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
GDR writes:

The problem with global warming it is difficult to know who to believe.

I'm sorry but there is absolutely no reason to believe anyone.

The issue is "If Global Warming is happening, how do we prepare to ameliorate the negative effects?"


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:34 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:49 PM jar has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4983
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 142 of 177 (598898)
01-03-2011 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
01-03-2011 3:44 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
jar writes:

The issue is "If Global Warming is happening, how do we prepare to ameliorate the negative effects?"

That is a really good point. The problem though, is how can we even be sure that global warming is happening. We can look back and see what happened but according to the individual on that link, (a guy it seems with the right credentials), global warming has peaked and we are going in the opposite direction.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 01-03-2011 3:44 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by jar, posted 01-03-2011 3:56 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2011 3:58 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 145 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2011 5:08 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31451
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 143 of 177 (598899)
01-03-2011 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by GDR
01-03-2011 3:49 PM


It doesn't matter who you believe
It does not even matter.

The issues are still the same and the only part that we have any control over is those areas that are human generated.

The problems remain, changes in habitat, water distribution, human migrations, food distribution.

Edited by jar, : fix subtitle


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:49 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 144 of 177 (598900)
01-03-2011 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by GDR
01-03-2011 3:49 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
quote:

... according to the individual on that link, (a guy it seems with the right credentials), global warming has peaked and we are going in the opposite direction.

For those of us who can't see the video, who is it and what is his evidence ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:49 PM GDR has not yet responded

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 177 (598909)
01-03-2011 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by GDR
01-03-2011 3:49 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
We can look back and see what happened but according to the individual on that link, (a guy it seems with the right credentials), global warming has peaked and we are going in the opposite direction.

Ok, but he's wrong - we just ended a decade that was the warmest decade in recorded history, and the warmest single year ever recorded was last year - 2010.

That's not what it looks like when you're over the peak, that's what it looks like as you're headed up the hill. If you don't know who to believe, you can always go to the data yourself. And the data indicates that global warming is far from over.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:49 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1574 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 146 of 177 (598970)
01-04-2011 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by GDR
01-03-2011 3:34 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
GDR, I see that you are living in Canada, so of course you are having doubts about global warming the same way that you are having doubts that people actually have trouble finding adequate food and clean water for their children, considering that you are living in a first world nation.

The Aussies would disagree with you about the non-obviousness of global warming. Their decade long drought officially turned into climate change a couple of years ago. Why? Because droughts end. Climate change doesn't. Australia used to be a top exporter of grain. Now, they don't export at all.

What will it take to convince you? Are you expecting Canada to turn into a desert before you stop doubting?

Edit.

Here is an article on the long term drought in Australia. Even the Prime Minister, a hardened climate change denier, has begun to accept the science behind climate change.

http://www.independent.co.uk/...ituation-is-grim-445450.html

Edit again.

I still remember when people were denying up and down that there was an ozone hole. The arguments ranged from "I can't see the hole, where is it?" to "those scientists are damn liars". For me, it's the whole thing all over again taken to a new level. This time, the christians are determined to let the end of the world come.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


(\ /)
( . .)
c('')('')

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by GDR, posted 01-03-2011 3:34 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by GDR, posted 01-04-2011 3:49 PM Taz has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4983
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 147 of 177 (598990)
01-04-2011 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Taz
01-04-2011 2:14 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
Hi Taz

There doesn't seem too much question that question global warming has been occurring but the question is why.

Historically world temperatures have vacillated up and down since the dawn of time. Are CO2 emissions having an impact and if so how much of one?

I don't know but there are those who make a very good income, such as Al Gore, from the promotion of global warming and there are those who will lose their job from it.

I don't know why you want to scapegoat Christians on this. As a Christian one of things I believe that we are to do is care for the planet, as well as its inhabitants.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Taz, posted 01-04-2011 2:14 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Taz, posted 01-04-2011 4:06 PM GDR has responded
 Message 149 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 4:35 PM GDR has responded
 Message 151 by Theodoric, posted 01-04-2011 5:20 PM GDR has responded

    
Taz
Member (Idle past 1574 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 148 of 177 (598991)
01-04-2011 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by GDR
01-04-2011 3:49 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
GDR writes:

Historically world temperatures have vacillated up and down since the dawn of time. Are CO2 emissions having an impact and if so how much of one?


And there is no one denying the fact that temperature fluctuates up and down. What's up now is that the spike in world average temperatures fit perfectly with the spike in co2 emissions in the last century. Here is a question you can ask yourself. Would you say that increase in co2 concentration in the atmosphere traps more heat, traps the same amount of heat, or traps less heat in the atmosphere?

Or here is something to consider. So what if it turns out to be that the real cause for global warming ain't co2 emissions? Would you rather do something and find out later it was unnecessary or would you rather not do anything and find out later it was necessary?

There's a joke that's floating around. It goes like this. Global warming proven false. Oh noes, we've improved the environment for nothing!

I don't know why you want to scapegoat Christians on this. As a Christian one of things I believe that we are to do is care for the planet, as well as its inhabitants.

Not scapegoating at all. It is a fact that there are no louder voices against ANY environmental issue than those of christians. There are no louder voices against ANY improvement in human rights issues than those of christians.

As a christian, if you really care you should be out there telling your fellow christians to stop trying to impede progress on environmental and human rights issues. Time to prove your moral superiority.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by GDR, posted 01-04-2011 3:49 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by GDR, posted 01-04-2011 5:27 PM Taz has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31451
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 149 of 177 (599000)
01-04-2011 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by GDR
01-04-2011 3:49 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
GDR writes:

There doesn't seem too much question that question global warming has been occurring but the question is why.

Nonsense.

The question of why is of historical interest but it is not an important question to answer.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by GDR, posted 01-04-2011 3:49 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by GDR, posted 01-04-2011 5:18 PM jar has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 4983
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 150 of 177 (599012)
01-04-2011 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by jar
01-04-2011 4:35 PM


Re: Evangelical earth killers playing defense
jar writes:

The question of why is of historical interest but it is not an important question to answer.

It is an important question to answer. If it is considered to be from CO2 emmisions there will a great many people who will lose their jobs. If it is not CO2 emmisions and we focus on that then possibly we are missing the real reason and not doing something about that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 4:35 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 01-04-2011 5:34 PM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 157 by Taq, posted 01-04-2011 6:10 PM GDR has responded

    
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