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Author Topic:   Evolution of Altruism
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 56 of 103 (586051)
10-10-2010 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Bolder-dash
10-10-2010 9:36 PM


Hi BD,

A germ line mutation in a non-social species, sometime before there were insects. That is the type of scientific theories we are getting here. What a lot of crap.

Yes, it is a lot of crap. But then, no-one actually said that or any such thing. You just misunderstood.

Go Back, read Mod's post again. He never said that any mutation for social primates would have taken place before the emergence of insects. Before insects, there weren't even any vertebrates on the land, social or otherwise. The point about insects was that social behaviour is ubiquitous. It has probably evolved in multiple times in multiple species.

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-10-2010 9:36 PM Bolder-dash has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-10-2010 10:52 PM Granny Magda has responded

    
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 63 of 103 (586090)
10-11-2010 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Bolder-dash
10-10-2010 10:52 PM


Hi BD,

Let me just be clear, in case there was some confusion. When I was referencing remarks that modulous made about his ideas of how altruism was formed, I was NOT referencing remarks about granny magdas opinions about how altruism may have evolved.

No. Because I hadn't made any. You were misrepresenting Modulous, not me.

However, I will make note of the fact that in granny magdas version of how altruism arises, I guess we can conclude that it is a common mutation that has arisen independently a number of times.

Something else that no-one has said. There would have to be multiple genes involved in altruism, no-one is suggesting that a single gene is the last word in the evolution of altruism. And, no, I would not say that animal altruism is common. I would say that it is very uncommon. It is displayed by multiple species though, and since not all are closely related, multiple origins would make sense.

Can you think of another way that dogs and humans could both have social instincts and altruistic behaviours?

So anyway, I get the gist of YOUR theory of how altruism has arisen-that is that it is ubiquitous and probably evolved multiple times.

I did not say that altruism was ubiquitous, I said that social behaviours were ubiquitous. You really ought to quit misrepresenting people.

As for modulous, he is probably capable of explaining his own believes about his own theory, but if you don't feel he is maybe you can ask him.

I'll settle for just reading his posts without creating weird strawman versions of them.

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-10-2010 10:52 PM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 91 of 103 (586844)
10-15-2010 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Bolder-dash
10-15-2010 3:42 AM


Hi Bolders,

If we are going to assume that altruism is a result of Darwinian evolution, there is no reason to assume it only began in the human lineage.

I agree with you here. There is reason to suppose that it was already largely in place way before humans arose. Other apes display altruism after all.

Hunter-gathering is just one of the phases of man's lifestyle. The fact that it was probably the first phase doesn't really mean it would be more important evolutionarily than the 2nd phase or third phase, etc.

No, but that fact that agriculture has only been around for about 10 000 years, as compared to at least 160 000 years for Homo sapiens, would tend to argue for a strong hunter-gatherer influence on our inherited characteristics. Of course other members of the Homo group would have been hunter-gatherers, as would their hominim ancestors... The history of human settlement and agriculture are a drop in the ocean in comparison.

I don't put a lot of stock in things like the Granny Magda models...

Does this mean you don't love me any more? Heartbreaker.

...of well, it just arose independently a number of times in history...

I ask you again; do you have any other suggestion as to how altruism could be displayed in both dogs and humans?

...and I guess stuck around because it was selected for.

Can you point out to me where I said that Bolders? Oh, you can't, because I didn't. Lying certainly does come naturally to you.

Not ubiquitous, and also not so rare.

Oh look, more feeble misrepresentation. Which part of "I would say that it is very uncommon." translated into Bolder-dash-speak as "not so rare"?

Frankly, you are making a fool of yourself here. Your only input to this thread has been to jeer at any evolutionary speculation. That seems rather pointless in a thread which is explicitly devoted to speculation about evolution.

If you refuse to entertain the possibility of evolution, even as a hypothetical consideration, you have no reason to post on this thread.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Bolder-dash, posted 10-15-2010 3:42 AM Bolder-dash has not yet responded

    
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