The Nonsense of Revelation 13 Economics

A pretty common assertion that comes up around here is that Revelations 13 describes some coming world wide financial system.Here is an example of the assertions: from: Message 46Here is the passage from Revelation 13:

quote:

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16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

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18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

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Let's look at this passage.First, everybody gets the same number and the number does NOT identify the individual but rather "The Beast". There is no mention that this is some substitute for money or goods or any other method of buying or selling.Second, everybody gets the number. There is nothing in the passage about Christians being forbidden to get the "Mark".So let's see if there is anyway that this passage could be talking about money, currency, that buying or selling is "via marks and numbers implanted in the right hand or forehead"?As mentioned above, the mark is the same for every person. It does not identify the individual or any account or currency, it just identifies "The Second Beast". There is no way it can be used to effect some transaction.Second, is there anything that says Christians would not be allowed to have the "Mark"?Nope. In fact it says that everyone gets the "Mark", not that everyone but Christians get the "Mark'.So we have two strikes, it is not an identification that could replace currency and it is not something that Christians are not allowed to have.So maybe it says something about "All global currencies will fail, necessitating a global monetary system in which all money is globally regulated and secured by a global government so as to be totally safe from theft and/or inflation"?Nope yet again.No mention of all global currencies failing, no mention of a global monetary system (which of course has existed as long as humans have traded crap), no mention of money being regulated or secured by a global government or that somehow that would prevent theft or inflation.Maybe it talks about implants? Shuckie Darn, it says "a mark on his right hand or on his forehead".Golly Gee Whiz, yet another strike.So is there any support for the claim that Revelations 13 contains ANY prophecy related to some future monetary system?Bible A&I please.Edited by jar, : appalin spallinEdited by jar, : fix titleEdited by jar, : response to the pedantic oneEdited by jar, : still slaying s's

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Thread copied here from the The Nonsense of Revelations 13 Economics thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Ponder for a moment the kind of person it takes to hold the position that the greatest experts of 2010 don't know what they're talking about when it comes to checking the temperature with a thermometer, but that swineherds and ancient con men were able to predict economic conditions two-thousand years in the future.

It has always seemed to me that Revelations was of the Fantasy genre. So I have never taken it seriously.And, sure, I have heard sermons explaining the symbolism. The explanations never did fit very well. We are supposed to read from the book, not read into the book.

Hi jar, If everybody has the mark why is the penalty for not having the mark not being able to buy or sell? Lets see what the text says. This verse say no man can buy or sell unless:He has the mark,ORThe name of the beast,ORThe number of his name.Those are 3 different things.We are not told what the mark or the name is.We are told what the number is. I don't know if there will be a global monetary system but I do know that everybody in the world will receive the mark, name, or number of the beast or they won't be able to buy or sell. We are also told that every person that does not worship the image of the beast will be killed. It seems that there is a system that to buy or sell you have to have a mark, name, or number in your hand or your forehead.I am not sure but I think that would qualify as a monetary system.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Well, Revelation is a classic example of the style called Apocalyptic Literature. But it appears to be talking about Rome and meant for people of the day. The big thing is that it is filled with examples of unfulfilled prophecy and so many people that don't understand that it is only talking about the past try to squint really hard to see if they can it fit into the future.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

On, not in.And just how do you have a monetary system that does not indicate an individual, an item or an amount?AbE: Missed this. Yup. It says everybody has the mark.It also says that you can't buy or sell without it.Still no mention that Christians would not have the Mark.Edited by jar, : missed one question.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Sorry, this whole thing is nonsense.If you want to read fiction, Shakespeare is far better.Tolstoy's War and Peace is better! (And we all know how bad that is.)

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Of course it is nonsense, but I'll admit if someone can show me how a mark that is exactly the same for every person and every transaction can be a monetary system I'll be impressed.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Hi jar, Not according to the text. That verse says in not on. Simple.It makes no difference what form of currency you have if you can't buy anything with it.It makes no difference what product you have if you can't sell it.So if you can't buy or sell what good would currency of any kind be?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Thank you for proving that the assertion it is a monetary system is total nonsense.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Hi jar, Everybody does not exist in the Greek text. He causeth small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive a mark in their right hand, regardless of status in life. Do you believe a Christian would receive the mark and worship the beast?I don't know any as they would die first.Especially knowing that they had missed the first flight out.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jar, Where did I make such an assertion?I did say: A monetary system is one in which the government provides a mechanism for buying and selling comodities.The beast does provide a mechanism for buying and selling.If you have the mark, name, or number you will be able to buy or sell if you don't you will not be able to buy or sell.Thus I still think it is a monetary system.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This place is as good for information as Pharyngula or Panda's Thumb and as good for a chuckle as cracked.com.Thanks for sharing.

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

So kinda like a retailer permit or wholesaler license?Edited by Omnivorous, : Buz-->ICANT

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Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio

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Real things always push back.
-William James