I agree that the term trinity is just a term. It could also refer to three gods. The word isn't the issue. It's the doctrine. The Doctrine of the Trinity was designed to counter claims of polytheism.
When what I would call "trinitarian" concepts are written about in the New Testament, the emphasis is on experience and enjoyment.
I think the Trinity becomes a problem to the natural mind when someone is overly occupied with doctrine rather than experiencing Christ - experincing God through Christ.
E. W. Bullinger, author of
The Companion Bible wrote:
"We do not, therefore, now to propose to discuss doctrines, or use any non-scriptural expressions; not even such words as "Trinity" or "Unity," or any ecclesiastical terminology. These are the things which divide the members of the One Body, instead of uniting them. These introduce the seeds of strife and contention. These have been the causes of contraversies and martyrdoms. But, if we confide ourselves to the Word of God, and that alone, both writer and reader may, and will, all learn together what God has revealed concerning Himself. We shall not seek to draw conclusions, or to discuss or revise any creeds. We shall give only the evidence of Scripture in the words of Scripture; and use only Scripture terminology. What we have to do in this matter is not to teach, but to learn; not to consider doctrines, but facts; and not to resort to reasoning, but to revelation. It is not a question of our understanding what God may mean, but of believing what He has said."
I think the usefulness of this man's quote is to emphasize that when the Bible speaks about "trinitarian" concepts, it is more in the realm of standing by faith on promises of God for the experience and enjoyment of God. It is not usually in creedal statements for men to have doctrines for doctrine's sake.
Quoting one source from you:
"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons; nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. ... "
If each is a god, then there are three gods. The idea of one substance was pulled from Plato not the early writers of the New Testament.
You could reason that way. And someone eager to defend against heresy may be tempted to utilize Plato to counter you. Both of these things occured and still do.
However, if we simply stand upon what the Bible has said without placing formal creeds above the Word of God - it is clear that there is only one God and not three.
So while I am in the enjoyment of the indwelling Holy Spirit which makes Jesus Christ real to me, I do not suspend that enjoyment in order to figure out why
"One God and Father" has to be wrong.
While I am empowered in the grace of Christ in my daily living, I do not allow myself to be destracted from that experience by reasoning that
"There is one God" has to be wrong, because there are three gods.
My focus is experience and stranding upon what is written.
It is far better to experience God and say
"Amen" to whatever the Bible says. We should not feel that it is our duty to logically reconcile all paradoxes BEFORE we can enjoy God Himself in His mysterious nature.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And who is able to enumerate all the evils and injurious changes which arose from this new philosophy - from this attempt to reconcile true and false religions with each other?"
I'm sorry these bad things occured. I'll try not to be involved myself. But as the poor behavior of the Hebrews did not mean Yahweh does not exist or lead Israel out of Egypt, neither does the bad behavior of some in the Christian Church mean - "No Trinity folks!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a shame you don't address my arguments. The quote above is from Mosheim, not me.
I realized that it was not your quote. What's the problem ?
This is the whole quote:
Mosheim writes:
"And finally it alienated the minds of many, in the following centuries, from Christianity itself, and produced a heterogeneous species of religion, consisting of Christian and Platonic principles combined. And who is able to enumerate all the evils and injurious changes which arose from this new philosophy - from this attempt to reconcile true and false religions with each other?"
Directly addressing this quote, it has much truth to it. And Jesus said that the kingdom of the heavens was as if a woman mixed leaven with three measures of meal until the whole became leavened.
Christianity has been MIXED with practically EVERYTHING under the sun. This does not argue for the untruthfulness of the Gospels. This argues for the need for some of us to be overcomers. That is to overcome the surrounding degradation.
In the prophetic letters to the seven churches in Revelation two and three, Jesus calls for some to hear what the Spirit says to the churches and to overcome the problems, stumbling blocks, obstacles, issues confronting each church.
To the church in Pergamos, Jesus said that they existed where Satan's throne was:
"And to the messenger of the church in Pergamos write: These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword.
I know wher you dwell, where Satan's throne is; and you hold fast My name and have not denied My faith, even in the days of Antipas, My witness, My faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells." (Rev. 2:13)
Where Satan's throne is mean the world. This church then was pretty much swallowed up in the world. The worldly philosophies infitrated the church.
And the name
Antipas means
"against all". This may indicate the the faithful servant of Jesus, Antipas, was against everything and everyone who was seeking to corrupt the church with their worldly philophies. For this Antipas was martyred.
So we have in this symbolism the Christian church filled with things of the world and not of heaven. Yet to this church there is the charge for His disciples to overcome the surrounding degradation:
"Repent therefore; but if not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword of My mouth.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who overcomes, to him I will of the hidden manna, and to him I will gove a white stone, and upon the stone a new name wrotten, which no one knows except him who receives it." (Rev. 2:16,17)
I would love to expound on this passage. However, my immediate point here is that Jesus Christ calls for some in the midst of the polluted church to be overcomers. They are expected to rise up to the level of a normal victorious Christian in Christ.
In the other six letters the principle is the same. There is a call for those who have an ear to hear the speaking Spirit. And there is a promise of reward to those who overcome. They are not all told to overcome the same thing. They are all told to overcome what obstacles are confronting the church.
One other little important thing before I go back to Moshiem's complaint. To overcome in these epistles does not mean to be extraordinary. It is not to rise above the standard of a normal Christian. It is simply to rise TO the normal standard.
The disciples of Jesus are both equiped and expected to overcome through the grace of the indwelling Son of God. Throughout the ages, the Christ within is greater then the Devil in the world.
To overcome is to be normal in the eyes of the Master.
So, Mr. Moshiem has a good point. Christianity has been leavened with all kinds of worldly philosophies. The call from Christ is to overcome these attacks of Satan through His prevailing grace. And had there not been overcomers down through the centries the Christian Church should have been diluted and swallowd up into the world ages ago.
Now I would like to continue writing but I have a tiny foster child asking for breakfast. I have to stop here.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
™ Version 4.2
(1)