The evidence for design and a designer - AS OF 10/27, SUMMARY MESSAGES ONLY

Dawn, where you're in trouble here is that you're obfuscating/confusing the role the Biblical designer. All existing order in the entire universe has been designed by Jehovah, including all forces and observed phenomena, including the formation of crystals.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Ah, thanks, Hooah. I forgot about that. No wonder Percy's point pevailed over DB, the deist. The unique Biblical model remains the only logical and prevalent alternative for the enormity of design observed. Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quotes

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Oh, so according to the Online Dictionary we have some deists on this board who are disquising themselves as pseudo-ID creationists. Interesting.Online Dictionary; #1 Noun definition; deist:

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You're not saying the same thing as me. You contradicted yourself in the same sentence. Percy asked if crystalines were an example of design. You said "No.....," when in order to be consistent with what follows......"crystalline is the result or design of an already existing order........," you should have said, "Yes....."The difference in yours and mine is that mine implies that the ID agent designed the order of the substructure, molecules, etc for crystals to form. Without the designer, no crystals. I would have answered, "Yes........"

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

How could one differenciate, relative to crystalline, for example? Design is not superfluous. To be superfluous would be to go beyond what is required or sufficient. In order for the designer to order crystals, the designer would have to put in order the chemistry and forces necessary for crystals to form.Jehovah, the designer of the first man did not simply speak energy and matter into existence. He used the elements in the soil from which he formed and designed the man. It took some time of day six for him to do that and it required rest after his work was finished. He didn't simply speak life into the man. He breathed life into the man from himself.What I'm saying is that the whole Universe enchilada was designed by Jehovah, the Biblical ID. That includes all forces and the order of chemical reactions.Where did the energy come from? All existing energy was infinite and thus compatible with 1LoT.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Processes and procedures hypothesied and theorized by secularists purposefully avoid anything that could be attributed to ID, especially when Biblically supportive.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

".....are not you strong......."

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You can't figure that out by yourself? You need help in comprehension? ToE involves perceived process and proceedures, does it not?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

IDists observe and come to a different conlusion.

Omni, Jar, Dwise and Ringo; One answer fits all. The evidence for ID creationism lies in evidence of the existence of the ID creator by observation of phenomena supportive to that entity.In the first place, the Biblical example of the creator did involve energy, matter, work, plan and process as per Genesis one where energy was applied to matter and work on the matter was effected over a period of time. It was not just a matter of zapping things into existence by fiat command.Secondly, Evidence has been debated relative to scientific research, fossils, living alleged extinct things, archeological research, social/curtural phenomena, fulfilled prophecy, and history etc. relative to the existence of a higher intelligence than that observed on itty bitty speck, Planet Earth, by relatively teeny little pea brain human creatures.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You had better reread. My evidence amounts to the evidence of a designer. Once you establish the existence of the designer, you have the evidence for design by designer. I can replicate and verify the scientific evidence of a designing designer. I can take a pile of sand, mix it with the right stuff and build a set of steps via work. That's because humans are intelligent designers, modeled after Jehovah, the Biblical god who took elements from the earth and designed things via work. The universe is full of evidence of design. Chaos does not tend towards order/design, just as sand and assorted elements do not tend toward designed functional objects. Then you didn't read my posts objectively.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

That's assuming there's no designer. This thread is about debating evidences of such. If a designer can be shown to exist, purpose and intent becomes relevant in science, does it not? Pathology: Online Dictionary: I'm not sure what you are alluding to here.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

So far, nothing but meanspirited condescending personal attack. No evidence has ever been cited. No evidence ever cited. No evidence ever cited. Nuggin, you have posted three strawmen.I know that you've been absent for a spell. Welcome back, by the way, if I haven't already said so.Unlike your strawmen examples, the EvC archives are rife with cited evidences of an intelligent operative designer in the Universe, whether or not you are inclined to acknowledge them. .

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

The difference is that intelligently designed things serve the purpose and intent of the designer, whereas your example/model has no purpose or intent.Design things which have purpose and intent tend towards ordered complexity relative to the purpose and intent of the intelligent designer whereas random design does not.Thus ID creationists view purpose and intent as relative to science research.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Lol, Hooah. ID serves as an adjective of the noun creationist in my sentence. I happen to be of the ID version of creationist and/or the creationist version of IDist. Creationists aren't the only IDists. ID is not creationism perse. Get it?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.