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Author Topic:   Evolution: Natural selection vs. Godly guidance
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 154 (588787)
10-28-2010 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by shadow71
10-26-2010 5:10 PM


Do Scientists, especially who I refer to as "evangelical atheistic naturalists" such as Dawkins, Dennett et.al. apply a different "standard of proof" for naturalist scientific theories than for Design theories?
No. Science employs methodological naturalism, so any explanation it comes up with is going to be natural. That same "standard of proof" is applied across the board.
For example when secular naturalist scientists refer to natural selection in evolution it is accepted as fact that there is such an entity. However can anyone prove the existence of natural selection?
Its more like assuming only natural explanations, and then determining what can be said to fit. But its not really making a comment on what doesn't fit. Natural Selection does explain the observations, and it hasn't been falsified, so it will continue to be the tentatively accepted explantion.
Does it have a physical existence that can be proven, or is it the name that scientists hope is the modus operandi of evolution?
I wouldn't say it has a "physical existence" and I wouldn't say "hope". I'd say that scientists have observed it working as the explanation.
It is argued that a supernatural being can never be proven, therefore intelligent design can never be proven. I can say the same for "natural selection", it can never be proven, only accepted on a belief, ie faith, therefore it is not a valid theory.
No, its because the observations fit and it hasn't been falsified. There's no reason to think that it isn't the explantion, and its performing well so for now it will do. But that isn't really "belief" or "faith" as those things are reserved for when we don't have observed evidence to work with.
What if, as I believe, evolution is the continuous creation by a supernatural being, who created and continues to creathe and evolve the natural world?
We can what if until the cows come home Sure, make up whatever you wish to believe. For this one, yeah, the scientists would be wrong in their assumption of naturalism and their explanation would be imprecise and incomplete.
What if evolution is the result of the continuous annihlation of non-living existence? Beings could be the evil-one's turds, or whatever. Then you'd be wrong. BFD.
How can sceintists accept a belief in natural selection as superior to my belief in the supernatural's continuous creation as the cause of evolution. Where is the proof?
I feel ya, man. If they're just assuming naturalism and finding explanations that fit, then you can't really say that there's is superior to yours as they'd both be the same. Stripped down, you're not totally incorrect. But...
The proof is this: Science works!
I mean, they put a man on the freakin' moon!
Methodological Naturalism yields results. Its gets things done. What ifs don't. You're certainly free to play with them, but science's refusal to entertain them doesn't mean that it is giving you the short end of the stick.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by shadow71, posted 10-26-2010 5:10 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by shadow71, posted 10-28-2010 11:23 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 154 (588808)
10-28-2010 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by shadow71
10-28-2010 12:09 PM


I believe in "providence" and that all things are willed or allowed by a supernatural being.
All things? Does anything happen on its own?
Does God guide both the sodium and chlorine atoms when they combined to make salt?
Is God placeing the individual water molecules to make a beautiful snowflake?
Did God make {insert player here} catch that game winning touchdown?
Did God cause that staving child to contract the flesh eating bacteria?
Did God make evil?
So I guess I am going back to the origin of the univese to argue that science is merely the investigation of what has been created and nature w/o a supernatural being would not exist.
Are you familiar with the God of the gaps?
In Science I belive there must be cause for what is happening in this universe, and I don't believe Science can prove that cause is natual.
It could be that the Universe just is.
Science has never set out to prove a natural cause. They are simply explaining things with naturalistic explanations and they are kicking ass and taking names with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by shadow71, posted 10-28-2010 12:09 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by shadow71, posted 10-28-2010 1:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 154 (588818)
10-28-2010 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by shadow71
10-28-2010 1:34 PM


Yes I am familar with the term God of the Gaps. I not filling in any gaps, I am statiing that it all happens as a result of God's creation.
So things can happen on their own then?
Its just that, because God started everything, then ultimately everything happens as a result of God even if they are happening on there own?
Did God make evil? He gave man the choice by means of conscious reasoning to perform evil.
Which, because God started it all, would mean that evil happens because of God, right?
Why is belief in a supernatural so threatening to Science?
Its not, like, at all.
What makes you think it is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by shadow71, posted 10-28-2010 1:34 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
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