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Author Topic:   Evolution: Natural selection vs. Godly guidance
ringo
Member
Posts: 16465
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 25 of 154 (588817)
10-28-2010 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by shadow71
10-28-2010 12:09 PM


shadow71 writes:

My belief is that "natual selection" is a term coined by scientists to describe what God has and is continuing to create.


So, do you think God whispers in each lioness' ear, telling her which zebra will be the easiest to catch? Or is she preprogrammed to pick out the one at the back of the herd with the limp?

I tend to think that she could figure that out for herself. If she didn't, she'd be selected out.

shadow71 writes:

So I guess I am going back to the origin of the univese to argue that science is merely the investigation of what has been created and nature w/o a supernatural being would not exist.


I tend to take the opposite view, that if there is a Creator, he's only using natural processes that exist with or without Him.


"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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 Message 21 by shadow71, posted 10-28-2010 12:09 PM shadow71 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16465
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 83 of 154 (589077)
10-30-2010 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by shadow71
10-30-2010 10:31 AM


shadow71 writes:

Do you consider theoretical physicists scientists?


Theoretical physicists work hand-in-hand with experimental physicists, like surgeons work hand-in hand with ER physicians. They're two different specialties, neither of which could function without the other.

Where are the experimental IDists? What experiments are they doing to confirm or falsify the predictions of the theoretical IDists?


"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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 Message 79 by shadow71, posted 10-30-2010 10:31 AM shadow71 has responded

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 Message 95 by shadow71, posted 10-30-2010 7:00 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16465
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 105 of 154 (589155)
10-30-2010 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by shadow71
10-30-2010 7:00 PM


shadow71 writes:

ringo writes:

Theoretical physicists work hand-in-hand with experimental physicists, like surgeons work hand-in hand with ER physicians. They're two different specialties, neither of which could function without the other.


So the answer is yes?

Yes, theoretical physicists are real scientists because even if they don't do hands-on experiments themselves, their work is tested by experimental physicists.

No, IDists are not real scientists because their speculations are not tested by experiment.


"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16465
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 117 of 154 (589208)
10-31-2010 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by shadow71
10-31-2010 3:16 PM


shadow71 writes:

Scientists presume that natural selection is the prime moving cause of evolution. How can you prove that if you do not prove how life originated.


Even if "divine selection" was the prime moving cause of evolution, that tells us nothing about the origin of life. A tinkerer-god is not necessarily a creator-god.


"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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 Message 113 by shadow71, posted 10-31-2010 3:16 PM shadow71 has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16465
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 131 of 154 (589457)
11-02-2010 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by shadow71
11-02-2010 4:25 PM


shadow71 writes:

All abiogenesis theories are so speculative as to be ridiculous.


My grandfather was born in south Russia in the 1880s. In his late teens, he served in the German Army. In 1907, he passed through the port of Hamburg on his way to Canada. He died here in Saskatchewan in 1939.

The exact pathway that he took to get from there to here is highly speculative. I've given you all of the details that I know for sure. But there is no question that there was a pathway. The only ridiculous conclusion would be that "you can't get here from there".

It's the same with abiogenesis. We don't know exactly how it happened but we do know that it happened because at one time there was no life and now there is life. Abiogeneis did happen, even if it happened by your invisible friend's magical poofing.

We managed to figure out the natural means by which the planets move and by which the rocks were formed. It would be ridiculous to decide ahead of time that we can't figure out the natural means by which life originated and evolved.


"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by shadow71, posted 11-02-2010 4:25 PM shadow71 has not yet responded

  
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