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Author Topic:   Logos = Universal Algorithm
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 39 (96978)
04-02-2004 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Chimp
04-02-2004 2:45 AM


DNA is an algorithm, a finite set of instructions
There are no instructions in DNA. All DNA does is catalyze the formation of proteins. It's just chemistry. It's not a computer.
There's no more "instructions" in DNA then there are "instructions" in a water molecule for the formation of ice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Chimp, posted 04-02-2004 2:45 AM Chimp has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Chimp, posted 04-02-2004 4:03 AM crashfrog has replied
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 04-02-2004 10:20 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 38 by Brad McFall, posted 04-22-2004 6:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 39 (97052)
04-02-2004 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chimp
04-02-2004 4:03 AM


Crash frog's opinion appears to be incorrect?
Any statement that DNA includes "instructions" is an analogy only. It's just as accurate to say that DNA is just chemistry, because it is.
It's fairly useful to consider cretain sequences of nucleotides as "instructions", but that's just an analogy, and it's inappropriate to go from that to a statement that DNA has real instructions in it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Chimp, posted 04-02-2004 4:03 AM Chimp has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by DNAunion, posted 04-02-2004 7:50 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 14 by Chimp, posted 04-03-2004 3:29 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 39 (97364)
04-02-2004 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by DNAunion
04-02-2004 7:50 PM


Can you name one thing that does contain instructions?
The manual to my VCR?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by DNAunion, posted 04-02-2004 7:50 PM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by DNAunion, posted 04-02-2004 11:47 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 13 of 39 (97399)
04-03-2004 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by DNAunion
04-02-2004 11:47 PM


No, the manual contains instructions, and here's how I know:
It was the intent of the writers of the manual to include instructions (this I know from the definition of "manual"); and, as a speaker of English, I can verify personally that the arrangement of text explains to me how to program the VCR.
Now, the manual doesn't program the VCR for me, and neither does it compel me to program it.
Instructions are messages from one person to another that explain how do accomplish a task in steps. If there's "instructions" in DNA, then who put them there?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by DNAunion, posted 04-02-2004 11:47 PM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by DNAunion, posted 04-03-2004 12:11 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 39 (99201)
04-11-2004 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Chimp
04-11-2004 7:51 AM


The information contained in DNA can construct a carbon based life form.
I don't believe that's necessarily true.
DNA governs certain cellular processes. That's pretty much all it does. I don't think that, given nothing but a string of DNA, that there would be any way to reconstruct the organism that it was from. DNA only "constructs" life forms in the context of certain cells, like gametes, and only when those cells are in their proper context.
I think it's a big mistake to assume that simply because DNA governs the development of an organism that it therefore contains an abstract representation of the organism.

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 Message 21 by Chimp, posted 04-11-2004 7:51 AM Chimp has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 27 of 39 (99555)
04-12-2004 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by DNAunion
04-12-2004 3:18 PM


Given sequences of nucleotides generate specific amino acid polypeptides.
I don't see how that necessitates the presence of information. I agree that you could describe those nucleotides with information, of course. You could even refer to that information when you talk about them.
(Well, here's me abandoning what you consider a "personal grudge". Can you respond without personal attack? Let's see.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by DNAunion, posted 04-12-2004 3:18 PM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by DNAunion, posted 04-14-2004 12:15 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 29 of 39 (99848)
04-14-2004 3:33 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by DNAunion
04-14-2004 12:15 AM


Maybe you could explain the significance of your quote in regards to my post?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by DNAunion, posted 04-14-2004 12:15 AM DNAunion has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by DNAunion, posted 04-14-2004 12:59 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 39 (100114)
04-14-2004 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by DNAunion
04-14-2004 12:59 PM


It necessitates it pretty much by definition...
I make a plaster cast of a animal's footprint. No matter how many times I do it I get the same imprint on the plaster.
Does that mean the animal's footprint contains information?

This message is a reply to:
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