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Author Topic:   Simple evidence for ID
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 108 of 135 (294307)
03-11-2006 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Rawel Singh
03-11-2006 2:51 PM


Re: Harmony in nature proves Intelligent Design
A design is intelligent if the produt's components function in complete harmony.
This evades the question of what is a design.
Usually the thesis of "Intelligent Design" is taken to be the claim that some intelligent being acted as a designer to produce the observed biological diversity.
If you are merely redefining "intelligent design" to mean the same as "harmony in nature", then you aren't really proving anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 2:51 PM Rawel Singh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 4:28 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 113 of 135 (294333)
03-11-2006 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Rawel Singh
03-11-2006 4:28 PM


Re: Harmony in nature proves Intelligent Design
I am surprised if you see this only redefining ID.
You appear to be using "design" as an abstraction, rather than as a reference to the work of a designer. And you are applying "intelligent" to the design (or what you call "design") rather than to the designer.
As Modulous has already commented, you are really using a variation of the "fine tuning" argument, and calling it an argument for intelligent design. But it isn't.
Different view points have been given on this subject includuing quantitaive basis, but fuctioning in harmony is the final proof of the design having been done intelligently.
Biologists see this harmony as a result of the adaptation that they see in evolutionary processes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 4:28 PM Rawel Singh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 9:50 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 120 of 135 (294379)
03-11-2006 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Rawel Singh
03-11-2006 9:50 PM


Re: Harmony in nature proves Intelligent Design
How do you find my description of design abstract when I have given physical examples of harmonious existence?
The word "design" usually refers to a process that is carried out by a designer. You have said nothing about the designer or about the process. Therefore the way you are using "design" seems abstract - disconnected from its usual source of meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-11-2006 9:50 PM Rawel Singh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 9:04 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 123 of 135 (294464)
03-12-2006 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Rawel Singh
03-12-2006 9:04 AM


Re: Harmony in nature proves Intelligent Design
Design is not a process but the culmination of the process of plannimg.
If that is how you are using the term, then you need to provide evidence of this putative process of planning that culminated in what you are calling design.
During this process, the designer identifies the existing situation, carries out an appreciation of where he wants to go, what are the impediments, how they can be overcome,what are the resources required and then arrives at the de.
No, that won't do. You must actually find evidence for this design process. You can't just make it up as you go along.
This thread is supposed to be about evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 9:04 AM Rawel Singh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 5:48 PM nwr has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 129 of 135 (294639)
03-12-2006 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Rawel Singh
03-12-2006 5:43 PM


Re: Harmony in nature proves Intelligent Design1
This message in reply to message no 123 of nwr.
I was wondering if you intended that as a reply to me. Clearly you clicked the wrong "Reply" button.
I am surprised that design of a system working flawlessly like a clock does not impress you.
How do we know that it works flawlessly like a clock. Maybe it works erratically, in fits and starts. But because we are part of the same system, we work with the same fits and starts, and so we don't notice them.
Let us not reject anything because it is connected with divine or religion.
I'm not doing that. I'm just rejecting your argument from incredulity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 5:43 PM Rawel Singh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Rawel Singh, posted 03-12-2006 10:08 PM nwr has not replied

  
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