Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 84 (8914 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 06-27-2019 2:36 AM
21 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus) (3 members, 18 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: 4petdinos
Upcoming Birthdays: ooh-child
Post Volume:
Total: 854,844 Year: 9,880/19,786 Month: 2,302/2,119 Week: 338/724 Day: 1/62 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev123
4
56
...
9Next
Author Topic:   Simple evidence for ID
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 46 of 135 (208059)
05-14-2005 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
05-14-2005 9:42 AM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Jar writes:

Why would language develop?

Uhh..to communicate?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 05-14-2005 9:42 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 05-14-2005 12:26 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 47 of 135 (208063)
05-14-2005 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Thugpreacha
05-14-2005 11:39 AM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Good start.

Now who would you communicate with?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-14-2005 11:39 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-14-2005 3:24 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 48 of 135 (208097)
05-14-2005 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
05-14-2005 12:26 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Now who would you communicate with?

It would start with family...my Mother and Dad..Brothers, Sisters..then in school, I would answer questions and talk to my friends...still later, I would be on the computer talking with Orange Orangutans and everyone else! :)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 05-14-2005 12:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 05-14-2005 4:30 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 49 of 135 (208114)
05-14-2005 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Thugpreacha
05-14-2005 3:24 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Soin the beginning of language, you'd talk with those who were physically close to you?

Is that correct?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-14-2005 3:24 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:14 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 50 of 135 (208289)
05-15-2005 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by jar
05-14-2005 4:30 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Yes, and by telephone to Grandma.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by jar, posted 05-14-2005 4:30 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 05-15-2005 12:04 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 51 of 135 (208352)
05-15-2005 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Thugpreacha
05-15-2005 3:14 AM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
But when language was originating there was no telephone. In fact, it's likely that there were only small groups or bands widely seperated from any others.

In such a situation, why wouldn't you expect a variety of different languages?

If you never see anyone except your local group, how would one language be an advantage?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:14 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:08 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 52 of 135 (208386)
05-15-2005 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by jar
05-15-2005 12:04 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
I dunno...when a certain type of dog barks, that bark sounds the same in china as it does in Sweden. Other behaviors are not contingent upon location--except environmental adaptations. Only humans---among all animals--have no "fur"...and have different articulations of expression in different areas of the world.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 05-15-2005 12:04 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by mick, posted 05-15-2005 3:14 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 55 by jar, posted 05-15-2005 4:10 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
mick
Member (Idle past 3159 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 53 of 135 (208388)
05-15-2005 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Thugpreacha
05-15-2005 3:08 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
Only humans---among all animals--have no "fur"...and have different articulations of expression in different areas of the world

Actually that isn't true. Animals that show some degree of plasticity in their communication generally show geographic variation. For example, bird species whose song is learned from parents rather than purely instinctual tend to have different regional "dialects".

There are lots of examples here

Birds also don't have fur ;)

Cheers

Mick


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:08 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:19 PM mick has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 54 of 135 (208389)
05-15-2005 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by mick
05-15-2005 3:14 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
As soon as I typed that, I knew that someone would comment on the "no fur" thing! :rolleyes: I should know because I have a pet Nandayu Conure...although her cousins squawk much the same as she does no matter where they live!

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-15-2005 01:19 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by mick, posted 05-15-2005 3:14 PM mick has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 55 of 135 (208406)
05-15-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Thugpreacha
05-15-2005 3:08 PM


Re: Nothing will be impossible for them....
As others have told you, that's not quite accurate. For example, one way we identified different whale groups was from their songs. Bird songs vary greatly from area to area.

Communications is important. Language is complex. It is a learned action.

It's very likely that language as opposed to sounding is one of those things which was invented time after time, in group after group, place after place. In the americas there appear to be at least five different root languages. It's one of the key things that have been used to build a picture of the arrival of different groups to the continents.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-15-2005 3:08 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 3327 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 56 of 135 (208421)
05-15-2005 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by dsv
04-24-2005 3:41 PM


dsv writes:

It would be interesting to see if there were some suggestions on improving current design, for the human body for example.

How about this Scientific American article, abstract below.

If Humans Were Built to Last; March 2001; by S. Jay Olshansky, Bruce A. Carnes, Robert N. Butler; 6 page(s)

"Bulging disks, fragile bones, fractured hips, torn ligaments, varicose veins, cataracts, hearing loss, hernias and hemorrhoids: the list of bodily malfunctions that plague us as we age is long and all too familiar. Why do we fall apart just as we reach what should be the prime of life?

The living machines we call our bodies deteriorate because they were not designed for extended operation and because we now push them to function long past their warranty period. The human body is artistically beautiful and worthy of all the wonder and amazement it invokes. But from an engineer's perspective, it is a complex network of bones, muscles, tendons, valves and joints that are directly analogous to the fallible pulleys, pumps, levers and hinges in machines. As we plunge further into our postreproductive years, our joints and other anatomical features that serve us well or cause no problems at younger ages reveal their imperfections. They wear out or otherwise contribute to the health problems that become common in the later years."

I think the reasons we haven't evolved better physical bodies and functionality to live longer are at least two fold.

We already live well past the age when we have reproduced (if we are going to) and provided parental care.
Natural selection does not act on traits post-reproductive age - there is no fitness gained from any improvements at this pont.

Secondly, we are tied into a number of inferior bone arrangements for upright walking, as described in the article, because we evolved originally as quadrupeds, and there are other evolutionary constraints that prevent us from evolving what might be significant funcational 'improvements' given our current way of life.

So, if we were 'designed', it certainly wasn't the best design for living as long as most of us are now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by dsv, posted 04-24-2005 3:41 PM dsv has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by KKawohl, posted 05-16-2005 6:30 PM EZscience has responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 135 (208504)
05-15-2005 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Ben!
04-24-2005 10:16 PM


Re: Mortality
I wouldn't say this is a property of creating the human mind, but of creating humans which are mortal.

If we did add on additional brainpower, we'd LOSE information. To simply add additional neurons to existing networks simply degrades the performance of the network. You'll lose memories, skills, etc. You'll become more like a child again--easier to learn things, but you know less. It would take work to "re-learn" what you already knew before adding more "brainpower."

There's other ways to add more brainpower, but given the lifespan of the organism, it doesn't make any sense. It's unnecessary. So first ask the creator why we're mortal. We have our current set of brainpower because it's more than enough for the life span that we have.

Hi Ben. I think you came on while I was banned. From what I've read of yours you seem to be a no nonsense person and this message is no exception. It appears that you will be a good addition to EvC admin staff. :cool:

Topic response:
The Biblical creator did answer the above question about mortality in the Genesis account, given that the death sentence came upon Adam with the original sin. In the Garden of Eden stood the tree of life, the fruit of which was to keep Adam and Eve alive so long as they ate it. This's why, according to the account that God forbid Adam to remain in the garden. This same tree of life will be in Heaven according to the prophet John in Revelation someplace in chapter 21. My point here as per topic is that mankind was, according to the Genesis record, intelligently designed to be immortal.

The curse of Adam's original sin, according to the record also affected all of creation which then was what would be considered a perfectly designed habitat for both mankind and the animals by a perfect ID creator. :cool: You can read about most of this in Genesis 3.

This message has been edited by buzsaw, 05-15-2005 10:18 PM


The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw
This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Ben!, posted 04-24-2005 10:16 PM Ben! has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by EZscience, posted 05-16-2005 9:27 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 65 by ringo, posted 05-17-2005 12:41 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
KKawohl
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 135 (208777)
05-16-2005 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by EZscience
05-15-2005 4:59 PM


The designer also learns from his mistakes.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by EZscience, posted 05-15-2005 4:59 PM EZscience has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by EZscience, posted 05-16-2005 9:28 PM KKawohl has not yet responded

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 3327 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 59 of 135 (208844)
05-16-2005 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
05-15-2005 10:17 PM


Re: Mortality
buzsaw writes:

My point here as per topic is that mankind was, according to the Genesis record, intelligently designed to be immortal.

Please, tell me you are not serious about this.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 05-15-2005 10:17 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 05-16-2005 10:08 PM EZscience has not yet responded
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2005 10:43 PM EZscience has not yet responded
 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 05-16-2005 10:45 PM EZscience has not yet responded

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 3327 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 60 of 135 (208845)
05-16-2005 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by KKawohl
05-16-2005 6:30 PM


Imperfection of Human Design
Meaning he should have come up with a better design by now ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by KKawohl, posted 05-16-2005 6:30 PM KKawohl has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Lammy, posted 05-18-2005 12:08 PM EZscience has responded

  
Prev123
4
56
...
9Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019