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Author Topic:   Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 16 of 192 (591347)
11-13-2010 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
11-13-2010 10:33 AM


Re: Articulation Demonstration
Frako, you are a good lil piggy, sweatheart! "wee wee".
Am I the only one who immediately thought of this when I read that?

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 11-13-2010 10:33 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 17 of 192 (591349)
11-13-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 10:49 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
But I wish that you would remember that we do also have many young members. Yes, curse words are just words however when the words you use inhibit communication are they the best choice for "telling it like it is"?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 10:49 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 11:21 AM jar has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 18 of 192 (591355)
11-13-2010 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
11-13-2010 11:12 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
however when the words you use inhibit communication
They will only do so if the person reading the post allows those particular words to get in the way of the message. If I were to replace "fuck" with "fudge", none of you would say a damn thing. What is the difference? There isn't one, other than fuck is more effective.
But I wish that you would remember that we do also have many young members.
I care, why? Why should I censor myself for some kid on the internet? That same young person could just as easily head over to 4CHAN and see much worse than my curse words...... If the time were to come where Percy no longer allowed "naughty language" on EvC, I would be glad to censor my language in order to follow board rules. Until that time comes, I couldn't give a shit less. If the rest of you care so much, either don't use the language yourself, or petition Percy to ban anyone who swears.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-13-2010 11:12 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 11-13-2010 11:33 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 21 by jar, posted 11-13-2010 11:43 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 23 by ringo, posted 11-13-2010 11:48 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 19 of 192 (591357)
11-13-2010 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 11:21 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
I care, why? Why should I censor myself for some kid on the internet?
On the internet you are what you post.
Profanity-laced posts don't leave a very good impression.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 11:21 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 20 of 192 (591358)
11-13-2010 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by frako
11-13-2010 8:55 AM


Intent of the author
FYI Frako I dont mind your misuse of the "proper" language at all.
You are a likable poster with a sense of humor. You know that you make mistakes and you don't do them intentionally.
Your intentions are noble.
hooah212002, on the other hand ( )
seems to cuss almost on purpose, as a point of identification of individuality and pride.
I dont care whether I am an American native son. I have every right to express myself as smartly or dumbly as I so choose!
(Oh wait, I am being more of an ass than you were!) Sorry, people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by frako, posted 11-13-2010 8:55 AM frako has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 21 of 192 (591359)
11-13-2010 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 11:21 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
They will only do so if the person reading the post allows those particular words to get in the way of the message. If I were to replace "fuck" with "fudge", none of you would say a damn thing. What is the difference? There isn't one, other than fuck is more effective.
The difference is that one term serves as a means of stopping communication as opposed to continuing discussion.
I care, why? Why should I censor myself for some kid on the internet? That same young person could just as easily head over to 4CHAN and see much worse than my curse words...... If the time were to come where Percy no longer allowed "naughty language" on EvC, I would be glad to censor my language in order to follow board rules. Until that time comes, I couldn't give a shit less. If the rest of you care so much, either don't use the language yourself, or petition Percy to ban anyone who swears.
Yes, we perceive that you do not care. And that is fine if your goal is to be ignored. In addition, the "Billy did it too!" defense did not work on the playground at kindergarten and is unlikely to have much more success here.
I fully understand that effective swearing is an art, and one that does require practice and experience, and if that is your purpose, well then perhaps this is a good a place for you to learn the art as any other. You might want to pay attention to those who seem to have mastered the art; perhaps you may learn from them.
At your current level of mastery though it seems far more like the typical five year old looking for attention rather than the surgical use of expletives.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 11:21 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 22 of 192 (591360)
11-13-2010 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Coyote
11-13-2010 11:33 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
Profanity-laced posts don't leave a very good impression.
I find that I can articulate myself just fine without the use of profanity when such a time calls for it. However, when dealing with profanely idiotic individuals or posts, profanity serves it's purpose quite nicely.
I would have to ask again: what is the real difference between the profane word itself and it's cleaner counterpart? If I were to use "crap" in place of "shit", not an eyebrow would be raised. The same goes for "fudge" in lieu of "fuck". Either word is simply a tool to express ones self. I find it comical that some of you are actually offended by words.
Furthermore, I challenge any of you to find a "profanity laced post" of mine that I posted anywhere other than the FFA section of this board.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Coyote, posted 11-13-2010 11:33 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Granny Magda, posted 11-13-2010 1:18 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 23 of 192 (591361)
11-13-2010 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 11:21 AM


hooah212002 writes:
Why should I censor myself for some kid on the internet?
A more apt question would be, "Why not?" I presume that there are occasions when you do "censor yourself". Or do you use the same language in a job interview?
Do you want to come across as an intelligent, science-minded grownup or not?

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 11:21 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by frako, posted 11-13-2010 1:21 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 32 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 1:27 PM ringo has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 24 of 192 (591372)
11-13-2010 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by frako
11-13-2010 10:38 AM


Re: Articulation Demonstration
frako writes:
I dont get it
wiii wiii - happy
weee weee- crying
ojnk ojnk - piggy
wee wee/ pi pi - need to go to the bathroom
And this little piggy went "Wee! Wee! Wee!" all the way home.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by frako, posted 11-13-2010 10:38 AM frako has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(2)
Message 25 of 192 (591374)
11-13-2010 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-12-2010 10:41 PM


What are some of the things that irritate you relative to how members communicate and how to improve the manner in which we discuss and debate the issues?
Well, here's a good example of at least two of them. One, stop using the word "relative." I've yet to see one single example of you using it properly. Most of the time, all it does it give the impression that you really don't know what you're talking about and trying to bullshit past your ignorance. Two, there are at least two different sentences encompassed by that quote, but only one period. Stop trying to put more than one idea in a single sentence. You can't do it properly, and most of the time that you try it's two different ideas that belong in two different sentences.
Quite honestly, Buz, I think your real problem is lack of clarity in thought. It's impossible to clearly express an idea in writing that you do not completely understand. The only solution to this is to learn to think clearly. Clarity of thought does not come naturally. It must be learned. You have not learned. I don't intend this to be an insult, but simply an observation based on years of reading what you've written.
However, in the absence clarity of thought, here are a few tips to help you express yourself more clearly in writing.
First, and most important, read Strunk and White. Learn it, love it, live it. There has never been a better manual of style for writing in the English language. (Incidentally, the White of Strunk and White is E.B. White, author of Charlotte's Web and Stuart Little, among other treasures.)
Second, write in shorter sentences. If you can't express an idea in 12 or fewer words, you shouldn't be writing about it. In most cases, when you write a sentence longer than that, you're trying to say too much in one sentence.
Third, learn basic rules of grammar. Your subject/verb agreement and sentence structures are atrocious. These are things that most people in this country learned in grade school. If you ever knew them, you've forgotten.
Fourth, get and use a spell checker. No matter how well you express an idea or compose a sentence, if you're misspelling simple words, you look ignorant. I'm not talking about occasional tyops, everyone makes those. But I'd venture to guess that you have yet to post a message of more than 50 words or so that didn't have a misspelling.
Fifth, proof read. There's a wonderful little button next to the "Submit Reply" button that says "Preview." I preview probably 75 % of what I write here, and most of the time I catch a mistake that I missed in composing a message and that spell check didn't catch because it wasn't a spelling error. (I've previewed this post twice and am still finding small mistakes.)
I suspect you will ignore these suggestions, but they would benefit anyone, even me. So I'll present them for general purposes.
Tyop in paragraph 7 is intentional and included for comedic purposes.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 11-13-2010 12:49 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 11-13-2010 9:54 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied
 Message 52 by Parasomnium, posted 11-14-2010 4:06 AM subbie has seen this message but not replied
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 26 of 192 (591378)
11-13-2010 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 10:49 AM


Re: Phats 2 cents
Hi hooah,
I am a brash individual. I tell it like it is and I am not about to "be nice" just because some people are pussies.
I'm sure you've heard the Team America "dicks fuck assholes" speech. It's true that sometimes dicks do fuck assholes and that this can be a good thing. Some assholes deserve it. On the other hand, just because you're a dick, doesn't mean that you should fuck every pussy that comes along.
The individual online persona that is Buzsaw is an ignorant, pig-headed, racist moron.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you're being unnecessarily harsh. Buz can be exasperating, but I don't think he's a bad guy. Ignorant? I suppose. Pig-headed? Sometimes. Sometimes not. Racist? That's a tricky one. Certainly Buz has voiced some attitudes that you or I would consider racist, but you have to remember that he is of a different generation to you or I. The moral Zeitgeist has shifted a long way in Buz's lifetime and he hasn't really caught up. Now that is certainly a bad thing, but it is at least an understandable thing. I can't read minds via ISP any more than you can, but personally, I don't get the impression that Buz is a hateful, cross-burning bigot. I might think less of him because of some of his bigoted comments, but I don't think that he is an terrible person.
As for being a moron, I think that's also harsh. I've met people a hell of a lot dumber than Buzsaw. Frequently. Like, every day. Besides, what's the big deal about intelligence anyway? Some people are born strong. Some are born pretty. And some people are born smart. If we're not born clever, we can work on improving what we've got, but ultimately, we are more-or-less stuck with what God gave us, so to speak.
Now I fancy myself as being a bit clever, but I don't deserve accolades simply for that. I was born that way, just as morons are born stupid and, by the same token, morons shouldn't be vilified just because they weren't born lucky. Further, it goes against the principles of honest scepticism to single out lack of smarts as some sort of unforgivable offence. Scepticism is a mental tool. You don't have to be clever to utilise it, just determined and thorough. The tool-kit of scepticism is just as available to bears of little brain as it is to those who are smarter than the average bear. If you want to attack Buz for the dumbass things he says, attack his failure to think-through, not his intelligence.
I don't know ANY of you, I comment on your posts that you make via your avatar. I take NO animosity from one post to the next. I address each and every post anew, so I don't think I have ANYTHING against any of you.
You may feel that way, but others can and do judge people by what they post and how they behave online. Perhaps you don't care, but you should perhaps be aware that in a situation where you are trying to be as persuasive as possible, you will almost certainly lose people by swearing and by being insulting. If you curse or crudely insult others, people are going to regard you as having squandered the moral high-ground and, rightly or wrongly, they're going to ignore you. they're going to assume that you're not very nice, so therefore what you're saying must be wrong. That may be fallacious, but what do you expect from creationists?
I think that the best way is a tit-for-tat policy. If people are nice with others, I try to be nice with them. And if they're dicks, well, I can do that too. I try to keep the profanity down to a minimum, otherwise it loses its mother-fucking impact. Of course, given some of the stupid things that are said on these pages, it can be hard too keep up. Sometimes I lose my temper. It particularly gets my goat when someone seems to think that they have somehow outwitted the entire scientific establishment and have seen the fatal flaws that the world's greatest biologists have missed, yet they cannot even compose a simple sentence in their native fucking language. Infuriating! Sometimes I just can't resist the temptation to play mock-the-idiot, but mostly, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
On the other hand, people who won't capitalise the personal pronoun are sick freaks and deserve to have a painful and fiery doom visited upon them from on high. SHIFT KEYS PEOPLE! THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS!
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 10:49 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 1:58 PM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 27 of 192 (591379)
11-13-2010 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by subbie
11-13-2010 12:21 PM


First, and most important, read Strunk and White. Learn it, love it, live it. There has never been a better manual of style for writing in the English language.
Or, alternatively, throw away your copy of Strunk and White, because it's a terrible "manual of style", is wrong in nearly every instance, and serves more to confuse writers than to clarify grammar.
quote:
The Elements of Style does not deserve the enormous esteem in which it is held by American college graduates. Its advice ranges from limp platitudes to inconsistent nonsense. Its enormous influence has not improved American students' grasp of English grammar; it has significantly degraded it....After Strunk's death, White published a New Yorker article reminiscing about him and was asked by Macmillan to revise and expand Elements for commercial publication. It took off like a rocket (in 1959) and has sold millions.
This was most unfortunate for the field of English grammar, because both authors were grammatical incompetents. Strunk had very little analytical understanding of syntax, White even less...
...What concerns me is that the bias against the passive is being retailed by a pair of authors so grammatically clueless that they don't know what is a passive construction and what isn't. Of the four pairs of examples offered to show readers what to avoid and how to correct it, a staggering three out of the four are mistaken diagnoses. "At dawn the crowing of a rooster could be heard" is correctly identified as a passive clause, but the other three are all errors:
"There were a great number of dead leaves lying on the ground" has no sign of the passive in it anywhere.
"It was not long before she was very sorry that she had said what she had" also contains nothing that is even reminiscent of the passive construction.
"The reason that he left college was that his health became impaired" is presumably fingered as passive because of "impaired," but that's a mistake. It's an adjective here. "Become" doesn't allow a following passive clause. (Notice, for example, that "A new edition became issued by the publishers" is not grammatical.)
50 Years of Stupid Grammar Advice
Don't rely on Strunk and White for grammatical advice. Don't rely on it for its banal and vapid style advice, either.
Potentially you could rely on it as a doorstop, or to press flowers, but that's about it.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by subbie, posted 11-13-2010 12:21 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 28 of 192 (591380)
11-13-2010 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
11-13-2010 12:49 PM


Strunk and White
crashfrog writes:
Or, alternatively, throw away your copy of Strunk and White, because it's a terrible "manual of style", is wrong in nearly every instance, and serves more to confuse writers than to clarify grammar.
I am encouraged - especially since I have never looked at Strunk and White.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 11-13-2010 12:49 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 29 of 192 (591381)
11-13-2010 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Buzsaw
11-12-2010 10:41 PM


Hooah is clear. You're usually not.
You have a pendulous and tiresome writing style suggestive of someone trying to afford ten-dollar words on a five-dollar budget. That is not "articulation". You are not articulate.
I mean you spent six paragraphs gesturing around your point, when you could simply have said "Hooah, please don't swear so much." Being articulate means choosing words carefully - yes, even profane ones - to quickly express your meaning. Your word choices result in a lack of clarity.
Perhaps, as well, you might defend some of your English wordage which other members consider offensive and improper in the public www fora for all, young and old to read.
Sorry, Buz. Nobody's offended by Hooah's use of the word "fuck" in all its glorious conjugations. What offends us is the bald and naked racism you frequently display, for instance most recently in Message 114 of Golden Age of Blah Blah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Buzsaw, posted 11-12-2010 10:41 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 11-13-2010 10:13 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 30 of 192 (591384)
11-13-2010 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by hooah212002
11-13-2010 11:44 AM


hooah212002's Potty Mouth
I challenge any of you to find a "profanity laced post" of mine that I posted anywhere other than the FFA section of this board.
Challenge accepted.
This board does have a search function you know. I'm not offended by swearing though. When done well, it can be very funny indeed.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 11:44 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by hooah212002, posted 11-13-2010 1:44 PM Granny Magda has not replied

  
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