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Author Topic:   Living According to Christ: Is it Reasonable?
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 18 of 122 (592771)
11-21-2010 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-15-2010 3:33 PM


Re: 2000 Years; 2000 Differences
Jon writes:
The New Testament presents a lot of teachings telling people how to live and how to behave. These how to live teachings often ask that individuals disregard their earthly wealth and worries to live a life in devotion of Christ and God. But, of course, Jesus preached, and Paul believed, that the world was soon to end. And it appears that many of Jesus', and Paul's, how to live teachings seem specifically tied to this belief:
Just a couple of quick thoughts on this. Much of the discussion in the gospels that might be construed as being about end times is really political. Jesus essentially said that if the Jews keep trying to beat the Romans militarily, the Romans will do what they always did. What he prophesied came true with the destruction of Jerusalem and more in the war of 70AD.
His message was that he, Jesus the Messiah, was building a new kingdom. It would be a kingdom without borders made up of those who would take his message of love, justice, truth, mercy, forgiveness etc to the world. Basically he said that the way to defeat the Romans was to love them, turn the other cheek and go the extra mile. It kind worked 300 years or so later, as Rome, at least in name became a Christian empire.
He did occasionally talk about end times such as in Matthew 25 where He talked about the righteous as being the ones that clothed him when he was naked, fed him when he was hungry and visited him when he was in prison and finished up saying that when you do those things for those who need it we are doing it for him.
The Epistles are more about the spreading and implementation of the kingdom that Christ established through His life death and resurrection. I read the message that the end times started at that point and that we still live in them today, but no one knows when God's new creation, or re-creation if you like, will finally be accomplished.
With that in mind it's probably best to figure that there is probably a few million years to go, so we should all be busy loving our neighbour, feeding the hungry, etc no matter where we find them. Also with that in mind we better take care of our earthly home.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-15-2010 3:33 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 11-22-2010 9:03 AM GDR has replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 20 of 122 (592937)
11-22-2010 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jon
11-22-2010 9:03 AM


Re: 2000 Years; 2000 Differences
Jon writes:
I am wondering if you'd be able to provide any chapter-verse citations that you believe evidence these claims.
It is hard to cherry pick verses from the Bible but I’ll see what I can do. I believe that the Bible should be read as one great story or meta-narrative so that when an individual verse is read it can be seen in the context of the big picture.
GDR writes:
Just a couple of quick thoughts on this. Much of the discussion in the gospels that might be construed as being about end times is really political. Jesus essentially said that if the Jews keep trying to beat the Romans militarily, the Romans will do what they always did. What he prophesied came true with the destruction of Jerusalem and more in the war of 70AD.
Here is maybe the most obvious example from Luke 21.
quote:
20 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
29 He told them this parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Vs. 20 — 24 is clear and the obvious armies that He would be referring to are the Romans. 25-26 is typical Jewish language for the Earth being in turmoil. 27-28 refers back to Daniel 7.
quote:
13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
A first century Jew would see the prophesy of Daniel 7 being fulfilled. With the war of 70 AD those that had advocated for the overthrow of the Romans by military means were gone and Christ’s message of loving your enemy was vindicated.
GDR writes:
His message was that he, Jesus the Messiah, was building a new kingdom. It would be a kingdom without borders made up of those who would take his message of love, justice, truth, mercy, forgiveness etc to the world. Basically he said that the way to defeat the Romans was to love them, turn the other cheek and go the extra mile. It kind worked 300 years or so later, as Rome, at least in name became a Christian empire.
From Mark 1
quote:
14 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15 The time has come, he said. The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!
In that Jesus is saying that the kingdom of God has been or is being established. Incidentally in the book of Matthew he uses the term Kingdom of Heaven as opposed to Kingdom of God which is understood to be the same thing.
This is from 1st Corinthians
quote:
23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
This is clear that the kingdom as established by Christ will be given to the father at the end of time, whenever that might be.
He made it very clear throughout His teaching that what he desired of His followers was a loving heart. This is clear in the Beatitudes and in the parables.
Paul says this in Romans 14
quote:
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
GDR writes:
He did occasionally talk about end times such as in Matthew 25 where He talked about the righteous as being the ones that clothed him when he was naked, fed him when he was hungry and visited him when he was in prison and finished up saying that when you do those things for those who need it we are doing it for him.
This in my view is one of the few times that Christ’s teaching were about end times.
GDR writes:
The Epistles are more about the spreading and implementation of the kingdom that Christ established through His life death and resurrection. I read the message that the end times started at that point and that we still live in them today, but no one knows when God's new creation, or re-creation if you like, will finally be accomplished.
`
In Colossians 4:11 Paul refers to others as fellow workers for the Kingdom of God. So at the end of all this I go back to my favourite verse which is Micah 6:8 which I is for all mankind.
He has told you, O man what is good; And what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God.
This then goes back to the original question of "Is it reasonable to live according to Christ". My answer is yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 11-22-2010 9:03 AM Jon has not replied

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