Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Does ID follow the scientific method?
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 16 of 325 (591808)
11-16-2010 9:21 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Does ID follow the scientific method? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 18 of 325 (591818)
11-16-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Panda
11-16-2010 9:31 AM


Re: Confusion Still Exists
Hi Panda,
I deleted the discussion messages in this promoted version of the thread. Please see the original discussion over at Does ID follow the scientific method?. In Message 3 Dawn says the the two methods are the same:
Dawn Bertot in Message 3 of the original thread proposal writes:
In general any theory or ideology that attempts to explain the physical world will have the same basic tenets of fact gathering. I will suggest what I believe to be the basics in this connection and then we will see if those can be be built upon, so as to completely distinquish the scientific method (SM hereafter refered to in this thread) from the IDM (Intelligent Design method)
It is my contention that these basics will remain the same upon investigation, so as not to be distinguished from the IDM
These basics are of course:
Observation, evaluation, experimentation (tests), corroboration, determination, predictions (if you will) and of course conclusions
In other words, Dawn believes that ID accepts the scientific method, and this thread is for exploring whether ID actually follows this method.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Panda, posted 11-16-2010 9:31 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by dwise1, posted 11-16-2010 10:12 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 33 of 325 (591939)
11-17-2010 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Coyote
11-16-2010 11:01 PM


Re: Design vs. non-design
Coyote writes:
...how one can reliably determine whether a particular item is designed or not.
Because I'm concerned about keeping this thread on topic I'd like to call attention to this question and point out that it is only on topic to the extent that it helps illustrate how the science of ID uses the scientific method, in this case to identify the principles for detecting design.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Coyote, posted 11-16-2010 11:01 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 72 of 325 (592220)
11-19-2010 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dawn Bertot
11-19-2010 1:57 AM


Re: Design vs. non-design
Hi Dawn,
I'm still catching up in this thread, but let me respond to this now before reading the rest of the thread:
Dawn Bertot writes:
We are dealing with methods and whether they are scientific in approach, not conclusions
design is the conclusion of a scientific approach, not provable in the same way a view that only natural causes are the cause
this is why I said earlier science minds make bad philosophers, logicians and debaters. Im sorry but that is true because you cannot distinguish between these two simple items
In order to demonstrate that ID does actually follow the scientific method you will have to provide examples of ID actually following the scientific method. Coyote is requesting that you show how ID followed the scientific method to reach the conclusion of design, and addressing this issue is precisely what this thread is about.
You don't have to use the example of concluding design if you don't want to, but you are going to have to find at least one example of ID actually following the scientific method.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-19-2010 1:57 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 73 of 325 (592224)
11-19-2010 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dawn Bertot
11-19-2010 2:16 AM


Re: Hypotheses
Hi Dawn,
Phrases that you've never been able to define are starting to creep into your messages. Until you successfully define terms like "rules of evidence" and "order and law" you cannot use them in this thread or any other thread, except threads for the express purpose of you defining those terms. Do not attempt to define what you mean by these terms in this thread. This thread already has a topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-19-2010 2:16 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 74 of 325 (592227)
11-19-2010 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Dawn Bertot
11-19-2010 2:23 AM


Re: Question everything
Dawn Bertot writes:
Please demonstrate why my observations of nature, my experiments, my evaluations and my predictions of what nature will reveal, are not science
In this thread you have not as yet provided any observations, experiments, evaluations or predictions. Please provide at least one example of ID following the scientific method by describing the original hypothesis, the experimental framework, the observations, the analysis, the predictions, the validation of those predictions, and the theory resulting from generalizing what was learned.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-19-2010 2:23 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 120 of 325 (592439)
11-20-2010 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Dawn Bertot
11-20-2010 4:14 AM


Re: One step would be to define what ID isn't
Hi Dawn,
Bluejay's request to provide examples of ID using various parts of the scientific method is identical to the requests I made in messages earlier in the thread. Illustrating how ID uses the scientific method is the very raison d'tre of this thread.
I will not speculate as to why you have not been addressing the thread's topic, but I'm taking two actions:
  1. I'm moving this thread to the Free For All forum.
  2. I'm removing your posting privileges in the Proposed New Topics forum.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-20-2010 4:14 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 121 of 325 (592442)
11-20-2010 8:15 AM


Thread Copied from Is It Science? Forum
Thread copied here from the Does ID follow the scientific method? thread in the Is It Science? forum.

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 188 of 325 (592637)
11-20-2010 9:23 PM


Topic Reminder
It's hard to get suspended in the Free For All forum, but some members seem to have that as their goal by posting persistently off-topic.
I'm headed off to bed now, but before I start the database improvements tomorrow morning I'll check this thread and will suspend for 24 hours anyone posting off-topic after this message. I'll be indiscriminate, so evolutionists, creationists and IDists take note.
The topic concerns whether ID follows the scientific method. The ID side should be providing at least one example of actual ID research following the scientific method, or at least working toward that goal.
If you posted off-topic before seeing this message better click that "edit" button now!

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 211 of 325 (592697)
11-21-2010 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Dawn Bertot
11-20-2010 10:37 PM


Dawn Bertot Suspended 24 Hours
Hi Dawn,
The topic of this thread concerns whether ID follows the scientific method. What you need is at least one example of ID research following the scientific method. When you return, please address your discussion to the topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-20-2010 10:37 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 212 of 325 (592699)
11-21-2010 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by alschwin
11-20-2010 11:13 PM


Alschwin Suspended 24 Hours
Wow! Spectacularly off-topic. Only the fact that you've been a member less than 24 hours keeps me from suspending you for a week. See you tomorrow.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by alschwin, posted 11-20-2010 11:13 PM alschwin has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 220 of 325 (592737)
11-21-2010 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Dr Adequate
11-21-2010 4:37 PM


Marc9000's excerpts include hypotheses and proposed experiments and seem on topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-21-2010 4:37 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 224 of 325 (592769)
11-21-2010 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by marc9000
11-21-2010 7:41 PM


In your earlier message you described a couple hypotheses and a couple possible experiments related to ID. Forming hypotheses and performing experiments are part of the scientific method.
But in this message you've reverted to Dawn Bertot's approach of simply asserting that ID follows the scientific method. You're arguing that this guy said this and that guy said that, but you're ignoring the central focus of the thread.
Evolutionists in this thread have provided a few examples of evolution research following the scientific method, as well as some additional examples of a more general nature. These examples were provided as illustrations of what is being requested from IDists, an example or two of actual ID research following the scientific method.
Supporters of ID who wish to talk about something other than examples of ID following the scientific method should not be posting to this thread.
I've posted a number of messages to this thread, and I think I've been pretty clear about what is needed, and I think a number of other participants have also been pretty clear about this, particularly BlueJay. It's time to address the topic. If supporters of ID continue to post off-topic I'll just close the thread.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by marc9000, posted 11-21-2010 7:41 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 248 of 325 (592861)
11-22-2010 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Dawn Bertot
11-22-2010 1:58 PM


Dawn Bertot Suspended 4 Days
Hi Dawn,
See my Message 120 and Message 211 where I requested that you provide an example of ID following the scientific method. I'm suspending you for 4 days. See you after Thanksgiving. In your very first message after your suspension I want you to provide responses to this list of requested information composed by Bluejay:
  • An example of a researcher making observations of the natural world.
  • An example of a researcher formulating an ID hypothesis based on those observations.
  • An example of a researcher experimenting to test that ID hypothesis.
  • An example of a researcher forming an ID theory based on the results of the experiment.
If you post anything else I'll just suspend you again, but for a longer period.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-22-2010 1:58 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 263 of 325 (592957)
11-23-2010 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Buzsaw
11-22-2010 9:58 PM


Re: Applying The Scientific Method
Buzsaw writes:
I responded by citing one of my examples of supportive evidence. Taq responded with the implication that the designer should be seen. I alluded to antimatter which also has never been seen, etc.
Not everyone says everything the same way. Taq actually used the word observation, and he was only expressing that he feels there is a lack of evidence in support of the actual existence of a designer.
If you can describe an application of the scientific method that has produced evidence for the designer then that would be on-topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2010 9:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024