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Author Topic:   Deconversion experiences
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 52 of 299 (593552)
11-27-2010 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 5:47 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Hi Meldinoor,
Sorry to here of your turbulent times and what appears to be ship-wrecked faith. I was looking over comments Buzsaw made and I agree with what he has to say. I think a Great Debate with him would be an excellent idea.
Prophecy is one of the strongest reasons to put your faith in the bible and thus the God of the bible. Jesus Christ fulfilled over 300 prophecies just himself.
In my opinion one of the major reasons you have struggled with your belief in God is because you compromise the truth of what God has revealed through his word with "worldly" wisdom. God's ways are not our ways and our wisdom is foolishness to God.
Its all about faith and faith is believing what you cannot see.
When we go back to the beginning where man fell into sin it was a faith issue. We didn't believe and trust what God said and every since then its an ongoing lesson about learning to trust God no matter what Satan or the world says.
I have been walking with God since 1983 and He has clearly revealed himself to me over and over and over again. One key as to why that has been my experience is because I trust him. I have faith what he has said is 100% true.
And I would say the majority of the time that God waits till the 11th hour to answer prayers. Over the years as I needed money for bills or a job or something it usually came down to the wire then POW He would open some door in the nick of time. He does that for two reasons. One, to grow our faith and two, to make sure we knew it was Him and not luck or coincidence. I have seen this happen more times than I can count.
....I don't know my friend, until you are willing to completely trust God above what the world has to say I think your faith will falter.
I will keep you in my prayers,
IC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 5:47 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 11-27-2010 7:25 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 56 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 7:27 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 11-27-2010 8:34 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 66 by Theodoric, posted 11-27-2010 9:15 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 58 of 299 (593571)
11-27-2010 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Buzsaw
11-27-2010 7:25 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Buzsaw writes:
Faith, however, can be dangerously blind, void of evidence. I think of the 30 or so intelligent Heavens Gaters at Rancho Santa Fe, CA who poisoned themselves to death, having faith for Haley's Comet to transport them to Paradise.
Well of course WHAT you are putting your faith in is only beneficial if it is true. Evidence is great when possible. Eve had no evidence that the fruit God told her not to eat would have the effect he said it would. All she had was his word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Buzsaw, posted 11-27-2010 7:25 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 11-27-2010 7:58 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 61 of 299 (593576)
11-27-2010 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 7:27 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Meldinoor writes:
Why doesn't He clearly reveal himself to me, even after many a prayer for Him to do so? Even when I felt his presence during the times when my faith was at its strongest, He never clearly and unambiguously proved His existence to me. If He can present Himself to you, then why can't He do so for unbelievers and those who are struggling with their faith?
God isn't going to appear before you and slap you in the face Meldinoor. Your relationship will always be based on faith. Even the most obvious "God" experiences retains the element of faith.
"Was that God or was that coincidence?" Its always a choice you will have to make.
I think if you would just choose to trust him, read and study his word every day to understand how he thinks and operates, your faith would grow to the point where you would just "know"
beyond a doubt that it is the true and living God that you see at work in your life.
Respectfully,
IC
Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 7:27 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-27-2010 8:33 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 67 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 11:08 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 68 by articulett, posted 11-27-2010 11:21 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 65 of 299 (593588)
11-27-2010 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by crashfrog
11-27-2010 8:34 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Crashfrog writes:
LOL!
......your laughter is much louder than you could possibly imagine......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 11-27-2010 8:34 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 72 of 299 (593647)
11-28-2010 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 11:08 PM


Re: Catch 22
Meldinoor writes:
Before I can trust God, I have to have at least a fairly high level of confidence that He exists.
Therein lies your problem. Your confidence. The problem isn't a lack of evidence. The world is full of hard evidence that God exists. Even the heavens declare his existence. You are standing there looking at the design claiming it only "appears" to be design. He answers a prayer in your life and you claim it only "appears" like he answered my prayer.
Its a choice Meldinoor. No matter what you choose to believe, its going to be by faith. No matter what evidence is provided to you there will always be a way to explain it away if you choose to do so.
Can you really have a design without a designer? Which choice takes the greater faith?
IC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 11:08 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by frako, posted 11-28-2010 10:22 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 74 by jar, posted 11-28-2010 10:37 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 75 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2010 10:51 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-28-2010 10:57 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 87 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 12:45 PM ICdesign has replied
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 11-28-2010 1:03 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 76 of 299 (593652)
11-28-2010 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by jar
11-28-2010 10:37 AM


Re: Design without a designer?
jar writes:
But that has nothing to do with any deconversion experiences.
Deconversion is a faith issue.....and thank you for providing the wonderful pictures of God's great design.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 11-28-2010 10:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 11-28-2010 11:04 AM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 78 of 299 (593654)
11-28-2010 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Theodoric
11-28-2010 10:51 AM


Re: More of the same BS
You are really good at making big statements. Woefully lacking with any evidence to back them though.
There are hundreds of books outlining the prophecies that Jesus Christ filled. If you are to lazy to do the footwork I'm sure Buzsaw will be covering many of them when he has his Great Debate with Meldinoor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2010 10:51 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-28-2010 11:02 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 81 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2010 11:08 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 82 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2010 11:36 AM ICdesign has replied
 Message 84 by frako, posted 11-28-2010 12:22 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 83 of 299 (593661)
11-28-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by bluescat48
11-28-2010 11:36 AM


Re: More of the same BS
bluescat48 writes:
You make the statement about fulfilled prophesies, therefore it is up to you to back them up with evidence.
......here are just a few...
Old Testament Prophecy // New Testament Fulfillment
Isaiah 52: 13&14 // John 19:1-3
Micah 5:2 // Matthew 2:1
Isaiah 7:14 // Matthew 1: 18-21
Daniel 9:25 // Galatians 4:4
Genesis 49:10 // Luke 3:23-38
Zechariah 9:9 // Matthew 21 1-4
Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2010 11:36 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by frako, posted 11-28-2010 12:23 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 86 by Theodoric, posted 11-28-2010 12:39 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 88 by GDR, posted 11-28-2010 12:47 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 91 by bluescat48, posted 11-28-2010 3:02 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 94 by hERICtic, posted 11-28-2010 4:04 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 95 by dwise1, posted 11-28-2010 4:25 PM ICdesign has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 103 of 299 (593708)
11-28-2010 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Meldinoor
11-28-2010 12:45 PM


Re: Catch 22
Meldinoor writes:
Actually, I'm standing here, looking at the world and claiming that it does not even appear to be designed.
Allrightiethen. So you are choosing to put your
faith in the idea that the body you live in (for example)
does not have even the appearance of design?
Am I understanding your position correctly?
What exactly is your definition of a design and please
give me an example of something that would meet that
criteria.
With great bewilderment,
IC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 12:45 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by articulett, posted 11-28-2010 10:49 PM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 109 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 11:12 PM ICdesign has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 114 of 299 (593763)
11-29-2010 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Meldinoor
11-28-2010 11:12 PM


Re: My view on design
Meldinoor writes:
A design is something created by an intelligent being, for an intelligent purpose. My post is an example of something that was designed
...WOW! I guess that says it all for me. No need to go any further down this barren trail.
I wish you luck Meldinoor
IC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 11:12 PM Meldinoor has not replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 264 of 299 (596068)
12-12-2010 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Taz
12-12-2010 2:11 PM


Re: jar? Purpledawn? Moose? GDR?
Hi Taz. I have noticed a lot of your comments have to do with Christians not tolerating the gay lifestyle. I assume
the reason this issue is so close to your heart is possibly because you are gay or someone close to you is gay.
I would just like to say that any Christian who hates another person because of their lifestyle is wrong and walking in sin. I myself fall way short on many occasions having harsh feelings towards others because I disagree with them on issues that are important to me. When I do this I am wrong and walking in sin.
Taz writes:
That said, if christianity really is about love and tolerance
The bible teaches us to hate sin but to love the person committing the sin. When you see these wacko's holding up their signs saying hateful comments with their gay-bashing and mean comments against whatever the issue is, you can rest assured they are out of God's will and do not represent what the bible is teaching on how to confront sin.
Jesus himself is our model of behavior. He loved people right where they were at. Its important to note however that he never tolerated the sin. He loved the sinner yes. But you never see Jesus telling a person their sin was OK and to keep on keeping on. He said "Go and sin no more".
there ought to be more christian communities campaigning against scam artists like peter popoff and benny hinn
These guys and the circus acts like them are not of God and will some day answer to God in a very frightening fashion. Their are a lot of solid Christian leaders who speak out against this heresy.
Respectfully,
IC
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Taz, posted 12-12-2010 2:11 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Taz, posted 12-12-2010 10:05 PM ICdesign has replied

  
ICdesign
Member (Idle past 4913 days)
Posts: 360
From: Phoenix Arizona USA
Joined: 03-10-2007


Message 267 of 299 (596086)
12-12-2010 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Taz
12-12-2010 10:05 PM


Re: jar? Purpledawn? Moose? GDR?
Taz writes:
It's not a lifestyle. Some gay people are doctors, some are engineers, some are lawyers, some are construction workers
Yes it is a lifestyle. Being a doctor, engineer and a lawyer is a profession not a lifestyle.
Then wouldn't you say that voting by the masses to take away rights of gay people is hating the sin but loving the person?
Standing against the perversion of homosexuality in the voting arena is not taking away the rights of a person who is gay nor is it about the person. A gay person has just as many rights as any other person.
This hate the sin but love the person is just a rationalization to hate.
Just because you are incapable of separating the two doesn't mean followers of God haven't learned how to. I have learned how and know many people who have learned how also.
Understand why "hate the sin but love the sinner" is bullshit now?
No, can't say that I do. I do see much hate within your heart though Taz.
By the way, the "hate the sin but love the sinner" is another thing that turns me off about religion. It basically justifies doing the worst things in the world in the name of purging the sin. I'm sure those christians who burned those witches to death were really saving their souls because they hated the sin of witchcraft but loved the sinners
Your the one all turned off spewing hatred. I haven't said one hateful thing but look at all your comments. Like all the other hypocrites I see, you do a lot of big mouthing about tolerance and rights but that only applies if they are in agreement with your beliefs.
If you're going to hate, at least be man enough to admit it. Don't try to beat around the bush.
Your obviously the one who needs to man up!!!
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Taz, posted 12-12-2010 10:05 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by crashfrog, posted 12-13-2010 12:30 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 269 by bluescat48, posted 12-13-2010 12:45 AM ICdesign has not replied
 Message 270 by Taz, posted 12-13-2010 12:45 AM ICdesign has not replied

  
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