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Author Topic:   Deconversion experiences
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 299 (593414)
11-26-2010 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Meldinoor
11-26-2010 1:19 AM


Re: From Faith To Disbelief
Meldinoor writes:
It's hard to point to a single reason for why I lost my faith.
Hi Meldinoor. It's great to have you back. I hope you'll remain active.
Over the decades I've counseled many in a non-professional manner as a layman in business dealing with the public. During the Viet Nam War I counseled newly recruited Marines in a Ca. Christian Servicemen's Center This was near Camp Pendleton were young newly trained Marines were about to be shipped out to the lines in Nam where things were hot and heavy, thousands of GIs coming back in body bags. Many of these men received Jesus as Lord (I say Lord/master) and Savior, committing their lives and souls to him, being anxious no doubt, about their destiny.
While in the USAF myself I was an activist apologist for the Biblical record and was the religious guy in the barracks who some came to on occasion to talk religion etc.
I've done some jail volunteer counseling and witness over the years with some of the church men who did that sort of ministry. In the jail ministry, quite often I encountered men who had once made a profession of faith of some sort. I would i ask questions as to what faith they had been in etc. For those who had professed a spirit born experience, i.e. born again I would tell them where I guessed that they had began to fall away from their commitment.
I would suggest three things which evangelical Christians needed in order to remain strong in the faith and to grow spiritually. First, read a chapter or more of the Bible daily. Second pray to the Father in the name of Jesus daily in a pattern somewhat like the Lord's Prayer as a model, but pray long enough to offer praise to God, to thank God for all blessings which come from him ultimately and to make request for all of their needs and concerns for that day. Thirdly, attend some assembly of believers at least once a week.
Invariably, in the jails, the men would admit that it was when they began to get lax on one or more of the above three things, they began to fall away from the faith.
Without being too nosey, I'm wandering what sort of faith and doctrine you originally had? Was there a specified time of conversion when you could say from that point you had become a Christian? What was the criteria for your conversion to Christianity in the first place?
Perhaps your faith was shallow and had never reached a significant amount of depth. Jesus spoke of the different soils which the sown seed fell on, some on rocky, some dry, some by the wayside, etc and some on the good soil where it took root. Did you ever have the assurance that your faith had taken root? Did your religion even practice and teach the need for a conversion experience?
I hope this helps in some way. I will have you on my prayer list as you go your way, trusting in God to, by his Holy Spirit, to nudge you in the way you should go. Often God works in interesting and unusual ways when we ask him. Perhaps he will bring about something unique for your ultimate good, in a manner so that you will know it came from the living God, Jehovah.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Meldinoor, posted 11-26-2010 1:19 AM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 3:30 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 299 (593455)
11-27-2010 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by cavediver
11-27-2010 4:35 AM


Cavediver writes:
The life I have lived as a Chrsitian has been amazing and wonderful.
You've just hit on one of the evidences of the veracity of the Biblical record. Cultures and families within those cultures, by and large, have fared the best, overall, of any cultures in the history of mankind.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by cavediver, posted 11-27-2010 4:35 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Panda, posted 11-27-2010 9:00 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 31 by articulett, posted 11-27-2010 3:51 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 62 by dwise1, posted 11-27-2010 8:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 299 (593514)
11-27-2010 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by frako
11-27-2010 2:01 PM


Re: On the other hand ...
frako writes:
..........whit no valid evidence to support the claim that a god exsists, it is very highly likely that no god exsists,........
Frako, click on my profile and find all of the evidence I have cited At EvC over the past seven years supportive to the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah. Refute any or all of them. LoL!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by frako, posted 11-27-2010 2:01 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by frako, posted 11-27-2010 3:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 11-27-2010 4:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 40 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 4:50 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 299 (593538)
11-27-2010 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 4:50 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Meldinoor writes:
The Great Debate format would allow you to present your arguments without the clutter of twenty people picking them apart at the same time. Also, there would finally be somewhere where your "evidence" is neatly summarized, allowing easy reference whenever you want to point someone toward your "previously mentioned evidence".
Meldinoor, that makes good sense. There's no one here at EvC that I would prefer for a Great Debate on evidence of the existence of Jehovah more than you.
Fulfilled Biblical prophecies would be among the topics to be debated. For an opener I would cite the phenomena of the restoration of Israel as a nation after some nineteen plus centuries of global dispersion.
This is a busy time for me, with winter coming on. I'm re-roofing some buildings along with other activities in my busy life as sole proprietor. My responses would be sporadic time wise. This would necessarily be ongoing for some time, catch as catch can, so as not to limit input in other threads etc. On that basis, how about it?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 4:50 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2010 5:23 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 45 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 5:47 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 299 (593543)
11-27-2010 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by xongsmith
11-27-2010 5:23 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
xongsmith writes:
Where is Hyroglyphics???
I wish I knew. He is missed. Perhaps he's lurking without logging in. I pray for him.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2010 5:23 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 299 (593548)
11-27-2010 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 5:47 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Meldinoor writes:
Looking forward to an interesting debate,
I've debated the Israel phenomenon in past threads. Since nobody acknowledges it as viable evidence, this will be a good venue for debating whether that be so.
Thanks for accepting the challenge. You have shown yourself to be a formidable and reasonable opponent.
I'll begin working up an opener.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 5:47 PM Meldinoor has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 299 (593562)
11-27-2010 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICdesign
11-27-2010 6:32 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
ICDESIGN writes:
Its all about faith and faith is believing what you cannot see.
Faith, however, can be dangerously blind, void of evidence. I think of the 30 or so intelligent Heavens Gaters at Rancho Santa Fe, CA who poisoned themselves to death, having faith for Haley's Comet to transport them to Paradise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ICdesign, posted 11-27-2010 6:32 PM ICdesign has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 7:29 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 58 by ICdesign, posted 11-27-2010 7:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 299 (593646)
11-28-2010 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Meldinoor
11-27-2010 7:29 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Meldinoor writes:
Thank you Buz, I didn't expect you to agree with me on this. Perhaps you do have some good reasons to believe as you do.
Meldinoor, there is an open thread which covers the prophet Ezekiel's predictions. Perhaps this thread could be moved by an admin to the Great Debate. Message 1 could become the OP for our debate.
This would avoid duplicating material already posted. It would also afford us both the opportunity to debate arguments already posted and to interject new points pertaining to our respective positions.
As an opener, my focus in our debate would pertain more to the Ezekiel prophecy and corroborating prophecies of other prophets than on the Lebanon. The Lebanon issue would, nevertheless not be off the table.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Gramatical error.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Meldinoor, posted 11-27-2010 7:29 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 1:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 299 (593701)
11-28-2010 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Meldinoor
11-28-2010 1:51 PM


Re: Great Debate Proposal
Meldinoor writes:
It's your call, Buz, although I do have a few problems with that OP as it stands.
The first problem is the fact that most of the prophecies that you reference in it have yet to be fulfilled. Now, you might make the case that the current situation in the Middle East could easily lead to the fulfillment of prophecy, but it seems to me that prophecy that has already been fulfilled would be a bit less speculative, and make a stronger case for the divine inspiration of the prophets.
Secondly, I'd prefer if you cited the relevant bible verses whenever you present an interpretation of scripture. The OP contains a lot of summaries and explanations of entire chapters, but very few actual bible citations to back up your interpretation of the scriptures. I'm not saying that your interpretations are necessarily flawed or unsupported by the text, but citing specific passages eliminates the very probable waste of time that is sifting through a chapter to figure out just which verses support our arguments.
I think I'd prefer a new OP, all things considered. But you're the one presenting the case for God's existence, so I will let you choose how to do so.
Regarding the yet to be fulfilled part, the SM makes predictions based on researched evidence as I understand SM predictions.
The most unlikely aspects of the prophecies cited in my OP of the current thread have been fulfilled in my opinion. As SM predictions go, I believe I have enough empirical fulfillment to be able to predict that the rest of the given prophecy will come to fulfillment.
Ezekiel, chapters 34 though 39 have a sequential time frame. These are the chapters which I want to debate. I will propose a new topic. In the OP I will post an introduction to these chapters, citing significant verses in the texts of each chapter to focus our debate on.
Though this prophecy is debatable, I consider it to be the most significant example of a phenomenal and observable fulfillment of Biblical prophecy pertaining to the end times.. It is the one which we have been watching on our TVs since Israel's restored nationhood.
Interesting it is that TV and Israel arrived on the world scene at about the same time. Providential? Methinks perhaps.
This topic, which I regard as very significant, is among the ones which skeptics consider to be irrelevant prophetically.
If this would be agreeable to you, it will be great to learn what your responses will be as iron sharpens iron here.
Edited by Buzsaw, : delete phrase
Edited by Buzsaw, : fix gramatical missed in preview

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Meldinoor, posted 11-28-2010 1:51 PM Meldinoor has not replied

  
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