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Author Topic:   Deconversion experiences
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 2 of 299 (593324)
11-26-2010 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Meldinoor
11-26-2010 1:19 AM


Well when i entered the age of reason 6-7 years old i started to question stuff, luckily the pastor that led my sundey scool was what we call a wordly person. (he was a biker, knew how to hold a sermon whitout everybody dieing of boredom, baseicly he was not your typical bible stomping whit a stick up his behind preacher). So during sunday school i asked more and more questions like what science says and what the bible says the more and more i questioned the bible of being a true word of god because if it is wrong on some things how can we be sure it is not wrong on other things. So after i fihnished sunnday school, i thought to myself well god is probably different then what the bible says (god of the gaps), the more i learned about the world and how it works the less place god had in it. So preatty soon the only thing god did in my mind was he snapped his fingers made the big bang go bang and then went to sleep for 15 billion years and is still sleaping now. Well soon i realised that was a silly idea. So that last place where god should go got removed and i became a full atheist.
I had it easy my mother was an atheist or more of an agnostic, and my father never went to church, though he sometime payed for a mass or 2 for his father my late grandfather. So i was not fed all the bullshit by force and it was easier for me to shake it loose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Meldinoor, posted 11-26-2010 1:19 AM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Meldinoor, posted 11-26-2010 5:54 PM frako has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 21 of 299 (593463)
11-27-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dr Adequate
11-27-2010 9:31 AM


Re: On the other hand ...
I retained that attitude when I became an atheist: that is, I continued to believe that if it was a lie, it was a wicked and pernicious lie. What changed was that I came to believe that it was a lie.
And once you realise it is a Lie it all makes sence and you laugh at what you once believed.
Example:
God anwsers prayers in yes, no, and wait.
Makes perfect sence if you believe in a god.
Once you see past the illusion you see that even the coffee coup anwsers prayers in the same way with a yes, no and wait there is no room to fail.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-27-2010 9:31 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 23 of 299 (593486)
11-27-2010 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
11-27-2010 10:39 AM


Re: Why be hasty at deconversion?
God is either real or She isnt.
If there is a god and a big if, he is most deffinitivly a HE, no woman could ever fuck up as bad as he did.
I still dont understand why you have to be a non believer? Nobody has been able to convince me that my belief is harmful to my psychological and emotional development. Its not like I try and let God drive the car or make my basic decisions for me.
There is nothing bad if you believe in Santa Claus so why dont you , belief it self is not bad and if someone wants to believe i have no problem with that.
Organised religion on the other hand is almost always a bad thing, they dont only decide how that santa clause looks like and what he did they also make you believe that they know his will and what you haveto do to make it on his good list. And if one of the higher ups says being gay is bad, the majoretity of the comunity automaticly thinks well he has a direct line to santa claus lets go bash some gays, lets go blow our selves up and take some infidels whit us, lets go burn that witch at the stake, lets torture that heretic ......
I prefer to think that God is busy in other parts of the multiverse. Even if God isnt busy creating, I believe that He is involved in a sort of a communion with all of life. I suppose that it wouldnt hurt to bhe an atheist, but it makes me feel just a wee bit uncomfortable that someone who knows what they are doing isnt in charge.
Im not saying it is impossible, it is also possible that santa clause has his toy work shop on the south pole and we have been looking at the wrong place. With no evidence to spport the exsitance of god i see no point to believe there is one, if it makes you feel better that there is a god and that he watches out for you then be my guest believe all you want. If it gives you a sence of purpose shure why not there is nothing wrong with that. Though for some reason i cannot lie to myself if i tried that now i would see trough all the bs.
Why is it necessary to break that habit? Even if prayer were only meditation with an idealized higher self, it would serve some useful function.But if you have to let go, by all means dont let me get in your way.
Well prayer is far from meditation
meditation in short= do nothing, think nothing.
Prayer ask for something
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 26 of 299 (593503)
11-27-2010 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by RAZD
11-27-2010 1:12 PM


Re: On the other hand ...
Strong Atheist: the non-existence of god/s is more likely than not. (logically invalid position)
This is a logically valid position, whit no valid evidence to support the claim that a god exsists, it is very highly likely that no god exsists, there is still a possibility that we have not found any evidence yet and we will in the future or that he is shy and does not want to be found though until one or the other reason is proven the only logically valid position is that the existence of a god Is very very unlikely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 11-27-2010 1:12 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by xongsmith, posted 11-27-2010 3:02 PM frako has not replied
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 11-27-2010 3:02 PM frako has replied
 Message 29 by RAZD, posted 11-27-2010 3:25 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 30 of 299 (593520)
11-27-2010 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
11-27-2010 3:02 PM


Re: On the other hand ...
Frako, click on my profile and find all of the evidence I have cited At EvC over the past seven years supportive to the existence of the Biblical god, Jehovah. Refute any or all of them. LoL!
Put them all in one place and ill refute ALL OF THEM. So fare there is no evidence for any deity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Buzsaw, posted 11-27-2010 3:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 32 of 299 (593523)
11-27-2010 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by RAZD
11-27-2010 3:25 PM


Re: On the other hand ...
All you are doing is using the "absence of evidence is evidence of absence logical fallacy" to say that your opinion is valid.
I never said it is absolutly true that god does not exsit I said the probability given that whit all the evidence how everything we know could have formed naturaly and no evidence that something could not have formed naturaly. It is By fare more plausible (beyond reasnoble doubt) that there is no god that had any hand in anything. I never said it is absolutly true thad god had no hand in anything.
To make it more clear, using your logic you could not say that you are ALMOST certin that there is no invisible undetectable unicorn running arround on the moon, you could only say the non-existence of the unicorn on the moon is possible, maybe likely, but not sure.
Do you see how your logic fails.
Though i do know that in these cases you can never be 100% sure that there is no god, or that there is no unicorn on the moon. Though you can be 100% shure that there is a god, or that there is a unicorn on the moon if you find some evidence of any of them.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 299 (593528)
11-27-2010 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Dr Adequate
11-27-2010 4:24 PM


Re: On the other hand ...
Whether or not this is a fallacy depends on whether or not presence of X would imply evidence of X.
The presence of an elephant in the room would imply the presence of evidence of an elephant in the room. The absence of such evidence does in fact imply the absence of an elephant.
By most definitions of God, God would be the universe-sized elephant in the universe.
Well the problem is that when you are dealing with god you are dealing with MAGIC so every claim you make to disprove god can be counterd by MAGIC so you can only arive at a 99.997%(the acuracy of a pregnacy test if i am not mistaken) conclusion that there is no god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-27-2010 4:24 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 73 of 299 (593649)
11-28-2010 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by ICdesign
11-28-2010 10:16 AM


Re: Catch 22
The world is full of hard evidence that God exists.
Orly so why has not the science community found any ?
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ICdesign, posted 11-28-2010 10:16 AM ICdesign has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 84 of 299 (593662)
11-28-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICdesign
11-28-2010 10:59 AM


Re: More of the same BS
There are hundreds of books outlining the prophecies that Jesus Christ filled. If you are to lazy to do the footwork I'm sure Buzsaw will be covering many of them when he has his Great Debate with Meldinoor.
You made the claim it is you who has to provide the evidence.
Though i would love to tare your claims to shreds if you start a new tread furfilled prophecies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICdesign, posted 11-28-2010 10:59 AM ICdesign has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 85 of 299 (593663)
11-28-2010 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by ICdesign
11-28-2010 12:22 PM


Re: More of the same BS
......here are just a few...
Old Testament Prophecy / New Testament Fulfillment
Isaiah 52: 13&14 John 19:1-3
Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1: 18-21
Daniel 9:25 Galatians 4:4
Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:23-38
Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21 1-4
You want me to look at the bible in all of those places you would not be so deer and write what those prophecies say would you.

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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 97 of 299 (593695)
11-28-2010 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by GDR
11-28-2010 5:52 PM


Re: More of the same BS
I go back to my earlier point that it is the bodily resurrection of Jesus that is central and essential to the Christian faith. If the resurrection was an actual historic event then the Bible can be read in light of that. If I were ever to come to the conclusion that I was wrong in my belief about the resurrection then I would view the Bible quite differently.
Even if there was a guy that woke up 3 days after he was dead that still does not support that a god was responsible.
You haveto take in to account that medicine was not on the same standard as it is now. One can be presumed dead and still be alive and wake up after a period of time.
Examples:
before my time in a village not far from me an old woman died and they laid her in that place where you sprinkle holy water on her and say a prayer. Dunno about your customs though usually they lay in there for a few days and then they get buried. On the second night that she layed ther some robbers came to steal her jewlery she wanted to be buried with them as they where poking her trying to take the rings and stuff she woke up the robbers fled. And the next day she wrote to the newspaper to publicly thank the robbers for waking her. A true story if you do not believe it i think i still have the newspaper clip my mother had i can scan it and poste it you can translate it yourself.
A nother example would be a woman in an elderly home where my mother in law works, the docters pronouced her dead 3X she woke up 2x. Once in the mourge, the second time in bead cause they did not want to rush it the second time yust to be sure.
I think discovery also had a show where people where presumed dead and woke up, i remember an american in a foergin prison who woke up in a mourge.
An a noter one from discovery i believe in the 1800s a son was burying his mother when she woke up in the middle of the funeral ofcourse the priest thought that she was an abomination/ zombie or whatnot so they pressed her back in the coffin naild it shut and preformed the burialy ritual and buried her.
So you see "resurections" happen quite often.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by GDR, posted 11-28-2010 5:52 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 112 of 299 (593752)
11-29-2010 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by GDR
11-28-2010 10:13 PM


Re: More of the same BS
But that isn't what is meant by resurrection. What you are talking about is resuscitation.
And you know that is not what happened because?

This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 149 of 299 (593880)
11-30-2010 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by GDR
11-29-2010 10:16 PM


Re: More of the same BS
Not right. I guess to put it simply I would say that God is concerned, not with what we do, not with our theology but with the condition of our heart. If we perform altruistic acts because we figure that God will then owe us a spot on the right side of the equation then we miss the point.
So what you are saying all do good atheists go to hevan while not all do good theists go.

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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 194 of 299 (595003)
12-06-2010 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Dawn Bertot
12-06-2010 3:13 AM


Re: Catch 22
So what exacally is IT, that THEY are teaching?
That changes accure in species and that the changes that offer better chances of reproduction and survival will have a better chance of geting transmitetd to more ofspring and those ofspring will have a better chance of transmitihng tohse changes further.
The immediate evidence of a physical nature, will only allow that change took place
And takes place now and in our recorded history. There plenty of evidence for your so called micro evolution, and evidence for the creo term of macro evenolution.
The immediate evidence of a physical nature, will only allow that order and law are present
And that they acure naturaly whitout desighn.
Those are the only demonstratable facts that are provable, from immediate and present evidence
Yes the ones i wrote. Colsing your eyes and saying there is no toher evidence and my evidence is just as good does not make it so.
I know you honestly believe that evolution is a better explanation, than design or creation, but in neither instance, outside of direct revelation, can one make a "best answer", because both positions suffer from the same limitations
There is more evidence then fossils for evolution sorry, and no evidence that order and law need a desighner sorry again.
Both positions are forced to use the same physical evidence and scientific methods to come to very valid conclusions in both instances
Ok lets take a look at the evidence.
Evidence for Evolution - Homology
Evidence for Evolution - Embryology
Evidence for Evolution - Observed Natural Selection
Evidence for Evolution - The Fossil Record
Evidence for Evolution - Genetics
Evidence for a desighner:
Order and law - NO THEY CAN SPAWN ON THEIR OWN
Life - NO SO FAR THERE IS NO NEED TO INVOKE GOD IN THAT
The universe - NO WE HAVE THEORIES THAT EXPLAIN THE CURRENT STATUS AND SOME EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP
I SEE NO EVIDENCE FOR GOD OR A DESIGHNER AND A SHIT LOAD OF EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-06-2010 3:13 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 261 of 299 (596062)
12-12-2010 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Taz
12-12-2010 4:35 PM


Re: gay rights? off-topic.
Actually, this is on topic. Gay rights is one example out of many that turned me off on christianity. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
I personally i do not know why religion tries to put its nose in to every thing that does not concern it.
Bing gay is an offense to god. Well ok let him be offended my guess is Allah is offended because you eat pork you do not see many Muslims protests that demand you to stop eating pork. If we followed every religions guidelines things would get rather complicated, but Christians usually do not think that way they think that only their guidelines should be followed because the bible says so and the Quoran, the teachings of Buddha and all the other 1000 religions are inferior to them.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
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