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Author Topic:   Do Animals Believe In Supernatural Beings?
jar
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Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 84 of 373 (595472)
12-08-2010 5:44 PM


If and when ...
If and when we develop a sufficiently sophisticated common language between humans and another animal species we may then be able to find out whether or not they believe in supernatural beings. Until such time though, we ain't got a clue unless someone can show some way simply through observation what exactly each critter is thinking.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Straggler, posted 12-09-2010 8:02 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 91 of 373 (595537)
12-09-2010 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by Straggler
12-09-2010 8:02 AM


Re: If and when ...
No.
We have firm and conclusive evidence that members of the group Homo have had and many still have beliefs in Supernatural Beings.
We do not have that at all for any other species.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Straggler, posted 12-09-2010 8:02 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 3:19 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 96 of 373 (595826)
12-10-2010 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Straggler
12-10-2010 3:19 PM


Re: If and when ...
And my answer is "No."

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 3:19 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 3:46 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 98 of 373 (595830)
12-10-2010 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Straggler
12-10-2010 3:46 PM


Re: If and when ...
Because no evidence has been presented that indicates exactly what any critters other than Homo species think.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 3:46 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:02 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 100 of 373 (595837)
12-10-2010 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Straggler
12-10-2010 4:02 PM


Re: Homo, Australopithecus, etc. etc.
You are, of course, free to think anything.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:02 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:18 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 102 of 373 (595841)
12-10-2010 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Straggler
12-10-2010 4:18 PM


Re: Homo, Australopithecus, etc. etc.
I would have to examine the specific evidence to see if I would accept the conclusion of supernatural belief even in homo erectus.
And yes, I would require even greater evidence to extend that to Australopithecus.
And honestly, I really don't much care if you believe my answers are trite, often trite is the best response to pointless questions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:18 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:42 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 105 of 373 (595847)
12-10-2010 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Straggler
12-10-2010 4:42 PM


Re: Homo, Australopithecus, etc. etc.
I have not yet seen any evidence that much extends beyond Homo sapiens sapiens quite honestly, and even much that I hve seen that asserts earlier Homo sapiens sapiens might hold supernatural beliefs I find unconvincing.
The pointlessness or otherwise of both the questions and the answers is best judged by those other than the questioner or the answeree.
I suggest you bear that in m ind in your responses.
Whatever.
If you follow back this conversation you will find that I made a general response in the thread in Message 84.
I stand by that post.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 4:42 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 5:20 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 107 of 373 (595852)
12-10-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Straggler
12-10-2010 5:20 PM


Re: Homo, Australopithecus, etc. etc.
Okay. Whatever. See Message 84.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Straggler, posted 12-10-2010 5:20 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Straggler, posted 12-17-2010 2:23 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 109 of 373 (595860)
12-10-2010 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Panda
12-10-2010 6:05 PM


And it could also indicate an almost unlimited number of things all unrelated to the supernatural.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Panda, posted 12-10-2010 6:05 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Panda, posted 12-10-2010 7:20 PM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 111 of 373 (595866)
12-10-2010 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Panda
12-10-2010 7:20 PM


speculation ...?
An awful lot of the speculation.
For example, elephants standing around a dead companion, even fondling the bones of a long dead elephant could be related to sorrow, or joy, or negotiations of changing social order or scents or ... we really have no clue.
Even with the species we know best, speculation related to a belief in the supernatural is often a real stretch. For example even finding items buried with people does not really support a belief in the supernatural. It can be explained by many other factors.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Panda, posted 12-10-2010 7:20 PM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 7:35 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 114 of 373 (595911)
12-11-2010 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Panda
12-11-2010 7:35 AM


Re: speculation ...?
We can explain what they are doing, but not what they are thinking.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 7:35 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:05 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 116 of 373 (595917)
12-11-2010 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Panda
12-11-2010 9:05 AM


Re: speculation ...?
That they are kneeling with their hands pressed together and making quiet noises; we can't go much further than that. We can look at their next acts and see if that tells us more but that's about it.
For example if immediately after that behavior they always go out one a coordinated hunt we can assume that whatever they were doing was related to the hunt.
We could even be very wrong about that though.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:05 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:33 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 118 of 373 (595919)
12-11-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Panda
12-11-2010 9:33 AM


Re: speculation ...?
So, you agree that we could identify if animals were behaving irrationally (as opposed to 'hunting', etc.).
Not quite. I'm not even sure we can apply the term "irrational".
So my 'speculation' would mean that we should see chimps behaving in a manner as if there was an unseen chimp.
e.g. Leaving favourite chimp food in a tree which no chimp eats.
Again, I would not go as far as to say why they did that or that it implies any particular belief system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:33 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:46 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 120 of 373 (595921)
12-11-2010 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Panda
12-11-2010 9:46 AM


Re: speculation ...?
Because it is unidentifiable even in humans.
There are atheistic pastors and people that follow all the rituals and still not believe. Sometimes (pretty often) their motivation is family peace, what someone else believes, comradeship or social networking, the food, fear or custom.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 9:46 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 10:26 AM jar has replied

jar
Member
Posts: 34118
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 124 of 373 (595926)
12-11-2010 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Panda
12-11-2010 10:26 AM


Re: speculation ...?
But it is not belief. The topic is "Do Animals Believe In Supernatural Beings?"
In addition even there all you are doing is ascribing YOUR beliefs to other critters. They could have entirely different beliefs yet exhibit the same behaviors.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 10:26 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Panda, posted 12-11-2010 11:02 AM jar has replied

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