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Author Topic:   Obama
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 301 of 314 (606011)
02-23-2011 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by ramoss
02-22-2011 11:45 PM


Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
To expand Jar's sentiments Message 299:
Which side FULLY controls the other's property, human rights, laws, water supply, health care/hospitals, employment, transportation/movement, to the point of death?
Israels or the Palestinians?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by ramoss, posted 02-22-2011 11:45 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 02-23-2011 10:02 AM dronestar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 302 of 314 (606014)
02-23-2011 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by dronestar
02-23-2011 9:45 AM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
dronester writes:
To expand Jar's sentiments Message 299:
Which side FULLY controls the other's property, human rights, laws, water supply, health care/hospitals, employment, transportation/movement, to the point of death?
Israels or the Palestinians?
Sorry but there you are just creating a false analogy. It is not that simple. Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon also play significant roles in restricting the Palestinians.
In addition, the Palestinians themselves can play a larger part in determining things like laws, human rights, health care and employment.
It is not simple. It is not Israel-Palestine.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by dronestar, posted 02-23-2011 9:45 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by dronestar, posted 02-23-2011 10:15 AM jar has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 303 of 314 (606015)
02-23-2011 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by jar
02-23-2011 10:02 AM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
Thanks Jar, you have some good points, but most of it is really that simple. For one thing, you only wrote about restriction, I wrote about oppression/torture/murder.
For another example, during the the Gaza War during the winter of 2008—2009, when Israel committed the war crime of collective punishment, how did Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon play a significant role?
Also during this war crime by Israel which the Israel military willfully targeted women and children, how could the Palestinians play a larger part in determining things like laws, human rights, health care and employment?
(Might I add, Obama remained silent about this war atrocity and H. Clinton dumbfoundedly spoke only how Israel needs to protect itself.)
We are going off topic, so I'll let you have the last word.
Collective punishment - Wikipedia
Edited by dronester, : added restriction/oppression verbage

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 02-23-2011 10:02 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by jar, posted 02-23-2011 10:22 AM dronestar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 304 of 314 (606017)
02-23-2011 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by dronestar
02-23-2011 10:15 AM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
dronester writes:
Thanks Jar, you have some good points, but most of it is really that simple. For one thing, you only wrote about restriction, I wrote about oppression/torture/murder.
For another example, during the the Gaza War during the winter of 2008—2009, when Israel committed the war crime of collective punishment, how did Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon play a significant role?
Also during this war crime by Israel which the Israel military willfully targeted women and children, how could the Palestinians play a larger part in determining things like laws, human rights, health care and employment?
(Might I add, Obama remained silent about this war atrocity and H. Clinton dumbfoundedly spoke only how Israel needs to protect itself.)
We are going off topic, so I'll let you have the last word.
Collective punishment - Wikipedia
There is oppression, torture and murder on both sides. There are plenty of examples to go around on all sides.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by dronestar, posted 02-23-2011 10:15 AM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Taz, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM jar has replied

Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 305 of 314 (606142)
02-23-2011 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by jar
02-23-2011 10:22 AM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
Jar, while you're right that both sides have had their hands dirtied, Israel remains the only player that is constantly facing a possible extinction. No other nation on Earth that currently has as many enemies who have sworn to its destruction than Israel.
I see what they are doing as a natural response to preserving their own existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by jar, posted 02-23-2011 10:22 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2011 12:14 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 307 by xongsmith, posted 02-24-2011 2:42 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 308 by jar, posted 02-24-2011 9:22 AM Taz has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 306 of 314 (606154)
02-24-2011 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by Taz
02-23-2011 10:10 PM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
I see what they are doing as a natural response to preserving their own existence.
How does it "preserve their existence" to keep cinnamon and newspapers out of the Gaza Strip?
Do you think maybe the reason they continue to have so many enemies is because they do their level best to piss off all of their neighbors? Do illegal settlements "preserve their existence" or do they inflame sentiments against Israelis?
Don't get me wrong - their neighbors are just as bad. But to describe the actions of Israel as uniformly being out of the interests of self-preservation is just plain stupid. Israel does as much out of self-dealing and self-aggrandizement as out of self-preservation. Keeping parts to build rockets out of the Gaza Strip? Sure, that's self-preservation. Keeping parts to build greenhouses out of the Gaza Strip? That's an effort to protect Israeli agribusiness from competition and subject Gazans to illegal collective punishment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Taz, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM Taz has not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 307 of 314 (606176)
02-24-2011 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by Taz
02-23-2011 10:10 PM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
Taz writes:
No other nation on Earth that currently has as many enemies who have sworn to its destruction than Israel.
...with the possible exception of the United States.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Taz, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM Taz has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 308 of 314 (606205)
02-24-2011 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by Taz
02-23-2011 10:10 PM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
Taz writes:
Jar, while you're right that both sides have had their hands dirtied, Israel remains the only player that is constantly facing a possible extinction. No other nation on Earth that currently has as many enemies who have sworn to its destruction than Israel.
I see what they are doing as a natural response to preserving their own existence.
Building settlements on foreign soil preserves their existence?
Demanding expanded borders?
Refusing to recognize the existence or rights of other Nations?
Regularly invading your neighbors?
Other than the US, what Nation as invaded more nations than Israel?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Taz, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Rahvin, posted 09-15-2011 1:30 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 309 of 314 (633672)
09-15-2011 12:39 PM


Passing the Jobs Bill
Hey, just wondering how that "bully pulpit" worked out. Republicans are lining up to pass Obama's jobs bill and he has unanimous support by his own party, right?
Remember back when I was so stupid that I said that the chief limitations on Obama's power and the passage of progressive agenda items were structural issues that privileged the status quo and conservativism, and not Obama's personal betrayal of progressive principles and refusal to fight for stuff? LOL! Current events sure proved me wrong!
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 310 of 314 (633682)
09-15-2011 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by jar
02-24-2011 9:22 AM


Re: Name the oppressor (and the enabling infected monkey driver)
You forgot functioning as a racist state.
Even simply identifying as "the Jewish state" is a crime of racism. If you're born Jewish, you can immediately gain citizenship regardless of your nation of origin with full rights; if you're any other race, you cannot.
There's no wonder Israel is so hated by its neighbors - they get to act like dicks, responding to terrorist acts with overwhelming force that invariably kills even more innocent civilians than the terrorists did, being the only (unacknowledged) nuclear state in the region, and so on, simply because they know the US has their back no matter what.
I'd love to see a President finally stand up and tell the Israelis to fuck off and do without any American support at all until and unless they commit to and follow through with the peace process. But then, that's a pipe dream - Israel is just too popular with Christian fundamentalists like Buz who see its existence and "strength" as a major sign of the impending apocalypse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by jar, posted 02-24-2011 9:22 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 311 of 314 (633753)
09-16-2011 6:31 AM


** !! Thread Closing in 48 Hours !! **
The limit has been reached. This thread is now closed to discussion.
Participants will be given 48 hours to post one summary of their
final position concerning the topic of the discussion.
Please do not respond to previous posts and do not respond to summations.
Again, thread will be closing in 48 hours.
AdminPD
P.S. Trying this without a preclosing.
Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 312 of 314 (633783)
09-16-2011 12:48 PM


Obama, still driving the epidemic-monkey to the airport
quote:
It’s been two and a half years since we first said Obama was trying to cut Social Security. Denial is no longer possible. Barack Obama, 7/22/2011, 6:06pm ET:
We then offered an additional $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/...caid-and-social-security
quote:
The Obama administration has pushed American political discourse to the right. Obama is effectively out hawking the Republican Party by calling for cuts in Social Security which were (until his recent overture) not even on the agenda for the Republican rank-and-file.
zcommunications.org - zcommunications Resources and Information.
Yep, any president that offers up those "entitlements," without any republican prompting, into the debt ceiling negotiations, just HAS to be a liberal. Gosh, gee, only an ignoramus could miss something like that.

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 313 of 314 (633789)
09-16-2011 1:32 PM


Despite imprecations to the contrary - and despite nonsense about "epidemic monkeys", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean - the debt ceiling deal had no entitlement cuts.
Also why does Dronester advocate the end of diplomatic relations with Iraq and the closing of our embassies there?

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 314 of 314 (634015)
09-18-2011 8:39 AM


Thread Closed
The debate has been lively
And the summations read.
If your discussion's unfinished,
Propose a new thread.
Here's to fruitful debating.
AdminPD
Magic Wand

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