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Author Topic:   Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 10 of 566 (595386)
12-08-2010 10:20 AM


Most Gods should be thrown away
Certainly a deconversion is valid.
If the god being marketed seems stupid, cruel, or just plain silly then of course that god should be thrown away.
Edited by jar, : be has an 'e' after the 'b'

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2010 8:35 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 23 of 566 (595488)
12-08-2010 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by arachnophilia
12-08-2010 8:35 PM


Re: Most Gods should be thrown away
Because I am not stupid, cruel or just plain silly.
A stupid, cruel or just plain silly god may still be a god but not something worth worshiping. Just throw the sucker away.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2010 8:35 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2010 9:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 25 of 566 (595494)
12-08-2010 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by arachnophilia
12-08-2010 9:54 PM


Re: Most Gods should be thrown away
Of course.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 12-08-2010 9:54 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 41 of 566 (595572)
12-09-2010 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by dwise1
12-09-2010 11:03 AM


Re: No Purpose
After all, religion can lose its effectiveness as a social club, but never as a weapon.
Of course it can even lose that function. If you no longer see the weapon as a threat, even that value is lost.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by dwise1, posted 12-09-2010 11:03 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 62 of 566 (596116)
12-13-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 9:06 AM


Because the Koran is not like the Bible, it cannot sustain itself by its internal evidences, in the nature of historical and archaeological support and especially in doctrine.
It apprears to be a bunch of random spiritual ideas strung together, with very little unity
The unity of doctrine and theme is one of the Bibles supports as being from God
So looking at the Bible and seeing that it does not have a unity of doctrine and theme would be a sufficient reason to deconvert?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 9:06 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 10:14 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 65 of 566 (596123)
12-13-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 10:14 AM


Can you read.
jar writes:
So looking at the Bible and seeing that it does not have a unity of doctrine and theme would be a sufficient reason to deconvert?
Dawn Bertot writes:
Is this a sickness you fellas have, or is it just a common practice amoung non-believers. Specifics fellas, Specifics.
Where is the lack of harmony and unity in the scriptures?????????? (For Subbie) Im putting a bunch of question marks here, incase I forget later
Dawn Bertot
You may well claim that there is some "unity of doctrine and theme" in the Bible, but that is simply your personal view.
If, for example, I look at the Bible and see that it is just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures and that there is no "unity of doctrine and theme", would that be sufficient reason for me to throw the beliefs you try to market away?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 10:14 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 7:15 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 74 of 566 (596181)
12-13-2010 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 5:15 PM


Re: Please learn how to read, Dawn
You might try actually addressing the questions.
quote:
You may well claim that there is some "unity of doctrine and theme" in the Bible, but that is simply your personal view.
If, for example, I look at the Bible and see that it is just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures and that there is no "unity of doctrine and theme", would that be sufficient reason for me to throw the beliefs you try to market away?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 5:15 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 80 of 566 (596205)
12-13-2010 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 7:15 PM


Dawn Bertot writes:
jar writes:
If, for example, I look at the Bible and see that it is just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures and that there is no "unity of doctrine and theme", would that be sufficient reason for me to throw the beliefs you try to market away?
You would be wrong and the answer is, No
Dawn Bertot
You might think that, and of course that is your right.
However, I believe that you claimed that ..
quote:
Because the Koran is not like the Bible, it cannot sustain itself by its internal evidences, in the nature of historical and archaeological support and especially in doctrine.
It apprears to be a bunch of random spiritual ideas strung together, with very little unity
The unity of doctrine and theme is one of the Bibles supports as being from God
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 7:15 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 93 of 566 (596226)
12-13-2010 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 9:12 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
A good portion of the Bible is Messianic, which demonstrates unity of purpose
So you claim, but which would still not indicate 'unity of purpose'. In addition you have offered no evidence that much of the Bible is messianic or that Jesus is in anyway related to any of the messianic passages.
Dawn Bertot writes:
None of these were of course the Messiah mentioned in Genesis 3:15 or the one in Isa 51, that would be called, mighty God, eternal father and Prince of Peace, fulfilled clearly in Christ in the New Law, correct?
So you claim but there is no mention of a messiah in Genesis 3 and the Messiah in Isaiah is most certainly not Christ.
If you think you can support those assertions there is a thread looking for No webpage found at provided URL: Prophecy supposedly fulfilled by Jesus. Feel free to try to support your assertion there.
AbE:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?
Edited by jar, : point out that Dawn has still not addressed teh questions asked.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 9:12 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 11:12 PM jar has replied
 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:16 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 97 of 566 (596238)
12-13-2010 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dawn Bertot
12-13-2010 11:12 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
I dont need to do anything, the scriptures will do it for you, just read it, with the clear theme in mind
Dawn Bertot
I'm sorry but the theme if it exists must be determined by the text, not before hand. If you read with the theme already determined you are only lying to yourself.
And you have still offered no support for your assertions or addressed the issued raised, which I will repeat in case you missed them.
quote:
So you claim but there is no mention of a messiah in Genesis 3 and the Messiah in Isaiah is most certainly not Christ.
If you think you can support those assertions there is a thread looking for No webpage found at provided URL: Prophecy supposedly fulfilled by Jesus. Feel free to try to support your assertion there.
AbE:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-13-2010 11:12 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 121 of 566 (596314)
12-14-2010 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 9:16 AM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
Any of the Old Testament prophecies that are clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and minisrty will suffice. Some are unmistakable that it cannot be missed except by someone trying to misapply them
And that says nothing about the inspiration that kept the word of God intact through the years
Our ability to reproduce nearly the entirity of the NT together from the early and late Church fathers, so we can see that the manuscripts match nearly without mistake the original autographs
Like I said, "I" dont need to do anything. The scriptures, Prophets, the Law and the NT piece it together so that even a simpleton such as mayself cannot missed it
Merry Christmas (Christ-mas) everybody
Dawn Bertot
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 9:16 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 5:23 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 135 of 566 (596394)
12-14-2010 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 5:23 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn, no one in this thread has ever even suggested you should deconvert. If you are happy with your little bling-bling pimp daddy of a god, then by all means keep it. I knew a kid once that liked smelling gym socks.
The question was what would be a valid, supportable reason for deconversion.
You still refuse to support your assertions, try again and again to change the subject, take things out of context and ignore the questions asked.
People can read the thread Dawn, you fool no one but your self.
So, yet again:
quote:
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

And if you believe there is actually a single Old Testament Prophecy that points to or relates to or refers to Jesus, then there is a thread open to discuss it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 5:23 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 10:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 140 of 566 (596435)
12-14-2010 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 10:48 PM


Re: scriptural unity
LOL
And so once again you simply quote mine in order to avoid addressing what has been posted. In case you missed it, I'll gladly repost.
quote:
Dawn, no one in this thread has ever even suggested you should deconvert. If you are happy with your little bling-bling pimp daddy of a god, then by all means keep it. I knew a kid once that liked smelling gym socks.
The question was what would be a valid, supportable reason for deconversion.
You still refuse to support your assertions, try again and again to change the subject, take things out of context and ignore the questions asked.
People can read the thread Dawn, you fool no one but your self.
So, yet again:
quote:
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

And if you believe there is actually a single Old Testament Prophecy that points to or relates to or refers to Jesus, then there is a thread open to discuss it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 10:48 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 11:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 147 of 566 (596443)
12-14-2010 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Dawn Bertot
12-14-2010 11:04 PM


Re: scriptural unity
Dawn Bertot writes:
Since you will provide nothing more than, "I dont like it" and "I dont see it", it like like all your other reponses, it would be a waste of time
here is an example. I have asked you now, in nearly 15 posts to provide a single argument as to why anyone should deconvert. You presented nothing that I havent already responded to several times
Dawn, people are capable of tracking back and actually seeing what I have said and I doubt that they will find where I said "I dont like it" and "I dont see it" as you claim. In addition, they will be able to see I have presented an argument that you have avoided responding to.
But I am willing to try yet again.
quote:
LOL
And so once again you simply quote mine in order to avoid addressing what has been posted. In case you missed it, I'll gladly repost.
quote:
Dawn, no one in this thread has ever even suggested you should deconvert. If you are happy with your little bling-bling pimp daddy of a god, then by all means keep it. I knew a kid once that liked smelling gym socks.
The question was what would be a valid, supportable reason for deconversion.
You still refuse to support your assertions, try again and again to change the subject, take things out of context and ignore the questions asked.
People can read the thread Dawn, you fool no one but your self.
So, yet again:
quote:
Except, as expected, when asked to support your assertion in a thread devoted to examining the claimed clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and ministry you simply refuse and say you don't have to support your assertions.
And, in addition, you once again refuse to answer the questions asked so I'll post them again.
quote:
Why if I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?


And if you believe there is actually a single Old Testament Prophecy that points to or relates to or refers to Jesus, then there is a thread open to discuss it.

Please note the bolded section that has been presented to you repeatedly.
In addition, did you say "Any of the Old Testament prophecies that are clear representations of and about Christ and point directly to his life and minisrty will suffice. Some are unmistakable that it cannot be missed except by someone trying to misapply them" yet continue to refuse to support that assertion?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-14-2010 11:04 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 176 of 566 (596508)
12-15-2010 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by Dawn Bertot
12-15-2010 3:01 AM


The purpose of repetition.
Dawn Bertot writes:
fortunately we are not debating that thread, nor do I have desire, as I have already indicated, to follow Jars method of reasoning, which is repetetion without response
The purpose of repetition is to point out to all that you have not responded to the issues raised or questions asked.
And the purpose of pointing you towards the other thread was to allow you the opportunity to present support for your many assertions that there are Old Testament prophecies that refer to or are related to Jesus and that Jesus somehow fulfilled some of those prophecies.
It is interesting that you do not respond to any of those requests except by continuing to claim such support without actually specifying anything that can then be questioned, verified or tested.
Edited by jar, : fix subtitle

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2010 3:01 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2010 12:32 PM jar has replied
 Message 183 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2010 12:36 PM jar has not replied

  
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