Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion

My guess is that you know exacally what Christ was saying concerning his kingship and kingdom, just like the rest of us, but you enjoy playing the dumb card.But it wont be until your death bed or the fear of old age setting in that you will make the typical recantCowards usually operate in that manner. To bad I wont be there to see it, but my guess is that it will happenDawn Bertot

Everyone make a mental note, DA disagrees that Jesus Christ is a Spiritual king over the Church (Spiritual Israel) and that is what the prophets predicted and the inspired writers in the NT make clear through inspiration and evidenceSo Now, all DA has to do is demonstrate why I should believe HIM, with no evidence to the contrary and why I should ignore that Christ fits and fulfills those promises, the way they were originally intended, in a spiritual fashionMy guess is that you cannot provide a reason or evidence, anymore than you could not show a theme or purpose in the KoranLets see what youve got Of course he did, its the church and he and his apostles make that known in both thier verbage and the evidenceDo you have any evidence that the church is not the kingdom the prophets spoke of?Dawn Bertot

I noticed you have 300 and something posts to my 2200, do you think your tactics will work? Your a sad excuse at attempts to intimidate. If cavediver couldnt do it, you have no chance. He tried for several yearsIll tell you and keep telling you, your wasting your time sonperhaps you could actually present an argument to the topic of the thread. As of yet, I dont remember any attempt by yourselfSuch is lifeDawn Bertot

xEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Since I have answered your question several times and demonstrated the the Koran is not on a par with the scriptures, that it is just a copy of OT stories strung together, with no purpose or theme, your above comment is therefore invalid Again your style of discussion does not promote debate, it consists of you repeating yourself. there is no reason to believe you wont do it there as wellI have provided as much support for those prophecies as evidence will allowIf you think you have something better than an inspired writer, then go ahead and present itYou see Jar, as in design, it comes down to the available evidence. Your disagreement with the NT is not sufficent to pass as evidence. You would need to demonstrate that the NT is inaccurate and unreliableDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Your free to address my allegations here as long as it does not get to far off topicDo you have something better than an inspired Apostle?Dawn Bertot

Wrong. You have given me no valid reason why I should accept your conclusions concerning the prophets, verses what an isnspired writer has claimedFirst provide why I should accept your conclusions over thiers, then of course we can look at your specific reasonsUnity of purpose is signified by the Apostles designation and classification of those propheciesAgain, demonstrate why I should not accept the NT, inspired conclusionsYour probably looking for a physical king as were the JewsDawn Bertot

I dont need to do anything, the NT inspired writers have already done it for me.Can you demonstrate why they are wrong? do you have knowledge they did not? Where you there as they were to witness these thingshere is what you dont understand about critical thinking.It comes down to me believing you or them. If you say they are wrong, then there is noway for me to know abosolutely who is right or wrong. So with the available evidence provided not only by eyewitnesses, but the rest of the evidence in the NT, I have to say I will choose themThat is unless you can provide something betterCan you?Here is another way you fail in critical thinking. Your trying to use passages out of a book (the OT), you dont even believe to be accurate or reliable in the first place to demonstrate why the ones in the NT are wrong. Does that make sense to you?If you have no confidence in the accuracy of the OT passages to be true to begin with, how in the world would you know that anything written anywhere else is not accurate concerning those same passagesThat is you do not trust the authorship, content or accuracy, but you have no way to demonstrate that those events are not true to begin with and your using THEM to demonstrate the inaccuracy of something elseIn one instance (the OT )you assume or imply that the author is accurate, for the sake of argument, to demonstrate the NT is wrong. All the while knowing to yourself and believing he is not the author and nothing he said can be trusted.Its almost hypocrital behavoirStrange logic and why do you care if both are untrue?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Let me correct that Please. define insufficient from a evidential standpointEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This may be true and in some instances it may work. however, one would need to discard the information contained in the NTand those writersIts no surprise that even today there are still people looking for a physical king, when that was never Gods intention to begin withGods words to Samuel apply.Samuel they dont need a physical king, they have a king,. Im thier king. They have not rejected you they have rejected meIm sorry you consider it nonesense, that is your rightread it as it was intended and the unity and purpose will be obviousDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Well that is not the point i was making. My point was, do you have information better than the inspired Apostles and Nt writers that cite passages of the OT to relay them as a fulfillment of said prophecies?Lets see you evidence that should suplant thier conclusionssecondly, if I am not mistaken, you dont even believe the writers of the OT were inspired, do you? No, you've simply been presented with an argument, for which you will not attempt an answer.Here it is again. Please explain why I should not accept the NT writers conclusions and estimations about the fulfillment of the prophecies they cite as relating to and the fulfillment of said propheciesas of yet I been presented with no evidence as to why they are unreliableAs such, I have a simple choice. I can believe them or I can believe you.Since they claim to be eyewitnesses to those events and the rest of the NT provides other evidences to that fact, why in the world would I believe youYou have made the claim that the NT writers are in error. Now all you need do is tell me why and HowCan you do this? Perhaps you could elaborate on this aspect as you keep refering to itLet me ask you a question Arch. were the writers of the OT inspired by God when they spoke thier prophecies, Yes or NO?Dawn BertotPS Ive told you and Jar you are free to bring any argument over fromthat thread as long as we dont get to far off topic. bring your big boy arguments here if you wishDawn Bertot

fun fact: they claim inspiration from the Holy SpiritCorrect and they are written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, unless you can demonstrate why that is not possible first the dates you cite are from liberal scholars (apologists). secondly, the dates do not remove them from having been eyewitnesses There are none so blind as those that will not see. its humorous to watch someone claim that someone else is using an apologetic approach and not see it in themselves.Im still waiting for clarificationon on what it is that you have textually and what we are missing More assertions, with no argument repeating that I dont understand this or that is not the same as providing an argument and evidence to that affectcan you demonstrate or provide evidence as to why I should not trust the NT writers, while at the same time I should believe the OT writers and thier conclusionOh thats right, You and Jar dont believe either were inspired to begin with, correct?Isnt it amussing that I am suppose to accept your interpretations of OT passages, without hesitation and the conclusions you draw from those prophecies as valid.But I am suppose to reject any NT fulfillment of said prophecies, because you have decided that one is valid and one is notYet you wont explain how youve decided the truthfulness of one and not the otherNow, theres a fun fact for ya. explain how that works after you explain whether the OT is inspired or notDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

And how did this work for you? As I have contiually demonstrated and pointed out, they are not MY opinions, they are the NT writers inspired opinions. It may be possible that like the Jews of old, you were looking for a physical king, when a spiritual one was underconsideration by GodYou keep claiming I am missing something textually and now youve called it the finer points of the Prophets. Perhaps you could explain what it is that I am missing I specifically asked you not to give me another, "Bird in the hand" explanation and you did it anywayCan you provide a reason or argument as to why I should not accept the NT inspired conclusions? Ill be waithing Were the people in this class inspired writers, did they have the inspired gift of decernment (1 Cor 12)? Of course he did bring peace to the entire world and rules at its king, as it is stated "all authority has been given him in heaven and earth"Like the Jews of old , you are looking for what God never intendedIts interesting isnt it? you denounce the inspiration of the NT writes, using nothing more than your own opinion.So Iam forced to a conclusion, I can believe this guy Arch, which can give no valid reason for his conlcusion, about what is intended in Zech, just his opinion, not to mention, Arch being uninspiredOr I can believe a person that said he was an eyewitness and claims inspirationWhy should I believe you more than him? Please explainEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Since you did not provide a passage, I cannot respond to it. Secondly, if inspiration in the OT was behind the prophecies, then only inspiration could explain Gods interpretations of those prophecies, correct?There is no reason to assume the writers in the OT were inspired and the ones in the Nt were not, unless you can provide a reasonSo only God could explain what he actually meant. This he did by his Son.. Many times he stated, that "the law and the Prophets testify of me""If you knew and understood Moses, you would understand who and what Iam, because Moses testified of me"I choose to believe Isa and Christ, unless you can provide a reason as to why I should notDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Wow, did you happen to see the word "spoken", in the passage. Not all things ever spoken by the prophets made it into a book. That does not mean that they did not say it out loud, or that it was not recieved by human ears.This also a good indication of inspiration, if indeed the writer never actually heard the prophet state it, it was given to him by inspirationhere it is in reverseamoung other indignities heaped upon my Lord, the prophets says that even the hairs of his beard would be plucked outIsa 50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.No NT writers references this item (the beard)specifically, but I know that it happened behind those closed doors, because this is what inspiration said would happen and inspiration gives a general discription of it Matt 26Only another inspired writer could make it known that was a reference to ChristDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.