Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion

That is palpably, the most ignorant statement I have ever seen or read"it does not matter whether they were reliable or accurate"why dont you add "believable"Give me a minute, I cant stop laughingNo one in any area of investigation, in any science would take such an approachyet Jar proudly and confidently claims as muchYour a hoot manEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Those have been explained a thousand times over Depending on whos explanation you accept You are entitled to atleast, your opinion. Buz has demonstrated that Israel regaining thier status as a nation, after having been scattered to the ends of the earth, that you are in possible error its only reasonable if your above premesis are true, they are notDawn Bertot

This prophecy, like all deliverance prophecies are about God and God alone. There is an involvement of the current events and future events in the prophecythe shepherds and leaders may have reference to some, then current even in Gods plan or they may have an explanation in the time of ChristThey may be a symbol of Gods power then or now. The numbers themself may be symbolic it should seem obvious that there is a transition of thought about 'time', when he says,"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,though you are small among the clansb of Judah,out of you will come for meone who will be ruler over Israel,whose originsc are from of old,from ancient times.God is actually talking about himself. Iam the deliverer now and will eventually deliver the whole world out of bondage, by ones whos going and coming in, are from everlasting.Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Of course he did, since he was God born as a man. I did not say it was not talking about Jesus entirely, I said its main thrust is and only about God as a deliverer How exacally?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Read the testaments as they were intended, as an illustration of God as a deliverer of his people, then you will."see it"Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This would be true, if I wrote the books of the NT, I was inspired by God to explain the fulfillment of the words he gave the prophetsLuckly, "you" and "I" are not the ones giving the meanings, this was accomplished by the same type of prophet in the NT, that Jar relies for his explanation in the OT prophetsIts not necessary for every word or idea to be explained in full for the NT writes to explain Gods overall planDawn Bertot

Let the scriptures be thier own best interpreter. When speaking of understanding Gods plans, he says"Though he be a fool or a wayfaring man, he shall not err therein"Are you sure you not trying to miss it on purpose, closing your eyes to its simplicity SpurgeonDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

i did not take it out of context, the NT writers through inspiration, explained Gods meaningis your indirect implication above that they were prophets of God, the prophecy was fulfilled even though it had not happened and that they were inspired?Micah claims to be inspired, are you claiming the same by your statement above about taking it out of context?You cant eat your cake and have it, JarDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Yes, of course, but perhaps we should explore what you mean by witness and what I believe.The only witness that is recognizable is that of God;s Word. It is sufficient enough for belief to conversionFood to the soul Lacking, how, where and why?Dawn Bertot

Were the writers of the Old Testament or New, inspired of God, in your estimation Jar? Yes or No Lets assume for a moment that you are correct about Cyrus. How did this man know in advance what would happen, if it came true, as you indicate.Since, you have deemed the OT and its authors as unreliable and inaccurate, how would you KNOW, that this was the fulfillment of the prophets words,How would you explain Cyrus, as his goings out and comings in from everlasting?Not only is your logic faulty before you approach such a passage, you have absolutely no way of knowing that Cyrus was its fulfillmentthe direct implication of such a statement implies that you would need to accept inspiration of some sort for your conclusion about Cyrus to be true.If you implication or belief is that he was the fulfillment, then it implies that you believe the writers were accurate and reliable, yet you fail to explain why they also thought they were inspired of God. Is the part of the context where they state this directly to be BELIEVED AS WELLPerhaps you could explain yet another delimma, you have now involved yourself inSeeing that you havent even approached or touched the first query of mine (Are they inspired or not, atleast from your perspective), it is obvious your are falling behind rather quickly Tell me jar, who is making the above statement? Who is the ME in the passage?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Of course it does. But only inspiration could or would let me know that, correct? If its not inspired, who cares what the writer was speaking aboutSince you like context so much, tell me, when the writer claims inspiration, should we believe that as well?Dawn BertotDA, were the writers in the OT and specifically in this passage inspired of God? were the writers in the NT, inspired of God

You havent even touched it. It is clear you have no intention of responding to the contradictions I have pointed out, not to mention the new ones I just postedHow would the writer know in advance Jar what would happen?How do you know that Cyrus was the person he had in mind?How could he know in advance the details of such events? By IT you mean the context correct? Why do you rely on the part of the context that supports you position, yet you reject the part of the context where the writer claims to have seen a vision of God or been told by God what to say.Now Jar there are only two real possibilities. He was inspired or he actually believed he did these thingsIf he did not, then logically, nothing he said about the future or its events can be trusted and there is no way you could know he was NOT speaking about anything or a specific personYou simply have to many contradictions to begin with to make such bold assertions one way or the otherDawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Speaking about inspiration jar writes So the writers were not inspired and you use for you conclusion on this that it is the Bible that tell us to warn against such false inspiration, correct?Tell me Jar which writer warns us against such false claims. My bet it is one of the writers that you also reject that has also claimed miracles and inspirationBut anyway, tell which writer out of the Bible it is that you use to help us watch for false prophetsI dont know whether you are joking or it is that you really dont understand how to think criticallyDoes what you said above make sense to you?Im sure youve done alot of study but I dont think you have thought these issues through criticallyDawn Bertot

Jar, your doing it by direct implication, which is as important as any point that has any historical contentNo one that has any knowledge of critical thinking, history or scriptural content would take what you are saying as seriousYour using the writers of the OT which you deem as unreliable to demonstrate that Christ was not the fulfillmentNow you have even ventured to say that they were correct in thier predictions, while at the same time rejecting thier claims to inspirationNone of what you are attempting makes any logical sense. Yet you fail to show why these are not contradictions and keep repeating yourself that we should just trust the writes wordsDoes that make sense to you?Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Jar thats the point. Without inspiration and your admitted statement that it is not Gods word and that the writers are unrelieable,none of your CONCLUSIONS Jar are anymore believable than anyone elses. Yet you speak confidently that yours are the only ones and that they are the fulfillment of the prophets words, in Cyrus and the surrounding eventsBy your own assertions concerning the scriptures and the writers themself, you have no way of knowing whether the writer was accurate, even by his own words, even if we examine JUST the context itself. Heres is where your contradiction strarts Jar. You want to rely on only parts of the prophets words for you conclusionsNow you have even admitted that the prophet got it right in Cyrus.You cant eat you cake and hve it to Jar. If the writer WAS inspired as he claims, then not only was his prediction about Cyrus correct, but it would demonstrate that God was involved and the NT writers would let us know he was refering to Christ as wellTo choose only portionso f the prophets words makes little or know senseDawn Bertot