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Author Topic:   Can a valid, supportable reason be offered for deconversion
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 331 of 566 (597449)
12-21-2010 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 6:29 PM


Re: More links to evidence so perhaps Dawn will get a clue.
Dawn Bertot writes:
jar writes:
What we are testing is whether or not what they wrote applies to Jesus. It is irrelevant whether what they wrote is reliable or accurate; it is what they wrote. We can test what they wrote to see if what they wrote refers to Jesus.
That is palpably, the most ignorant statement I have ever seen or read
"it does not matter whether they were reliable or accurate"
why dont you add "believable"
Give me a minute, I cant stop laughing
No one in any area of investigation, in any science would take such an approach
yet Jar proudly and confidently claims as much
Your a hoot man
Yes, we have seen you claim that.
But when will you explain why "That is palpably, the most ignorant statement I have ever seen or read"?
Are we not looking at what was written?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 6:29 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 332 of 566 (597450)
12-21-2010 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 325 by frako
12-21-2010 9:41 AM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
The bible contradicts itself on many occasions
Those have been explained a thousand times over
the bible is wrong on lots of facts
Depending on whos explanation you accept
No prophecies presented on this forum are actual prophecies and none have come to pass
You are entitled to atleast, your opinion. Buz has demonstrated that Israel regaining thier status as a nation, after having been scattered to the ends of the earth, that you are in possible error
So it is reasnoble to conclude that the Bible is not the word of god and it is in fact a book written by mere mortals trying to push their morality upon the mases and trying to explain what they do not understand
its only reasonable if your above premesis are true, they are not
Dawn Bertot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by frako, posted 12-21-2010 9:41 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by jar, posted 12-21-2010 6:49 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 355 by frako, posted 12-22-2010 4:27 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 356 by frako, posted 12-22-2010 10:28 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 333 of 566 (597452)
12-21-2010 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 6:44 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
Dawn Bertot writes:
Buz has demonstrated that Israel regaining thier status as a nation, after having been scattered to the ends of the earth, that you are in possible error
No, not true. Buz has asserted that is a fact but has not provided any support for that position. He knows that it will not stand up to examination which is why he avoids repeating such nonsense in an open forum where he knows it will get torn to shreds.
BUT WAIT ... There's more ...
If I look and find that there is no unity of doctrine and theme in the Bible (which is pretty obvious to anyone that understands there is not even such a thing as "The Bible") is that not sufficient and supportable reason to throw away the god and religion you try to market?
If I find the Bible to be just a collection of writings on a variety of subjects addressed to people of different eras and cultures, why is that not sufficient?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 6:44 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 334 of 566 (597455)
12-21-2010 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Coragyps
12-21-2010 6:41 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
How does it do that, DB? Are Romans really Assyrians? Does the New Testament talk about "seven shepherds,
even eight leaders of men?"
This prophecy, like all deliverance prophecies are about God and God alone. There is an involvement of the current events and future events in the prophecy
the shepherds and leaders may have reference to some, then current even in Gods plan or they may have an explanation in the time of Christ
They may be a symbol of Gods power then or now. The numbers themself may be symbolic
How does it do that, DB?
it should seem obvious that there is a transition of thought about 'time', when he says,
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clansb of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose originsc are from of old,
from ancient times.
God is actually talking about himself. Iam the deliverer now and will eventually deliver the whole world out of bondage, by ones whos going and coming in, are from everlasting.
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Coragyps, posted 12-21-2010 6:41 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Taq, posted 12-21-2010 7:05 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 336 by jar, posted 12-21-2010 7:07 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 337 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2010 7:09 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 338 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2010 7:09 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 339 by Coragyps, posted 12-21-2010 7:13 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10198
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 335 of 566 (597457)
12-21-2010 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:02 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
This prophecy, like all deliverance prophecies are about God and God alone. There is an involvement of the current events and future events in the prophecy
the shepherds and leaders may have reference to some, then current even in Gods plan or they may have an explanation in the time of Christ
They may be a symbol of Gods power then or now. The numbers themself may be symbolic
IOW, it can mean whatever you want it to mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:02 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:37 PM Taq has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34136
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 336 of 566 (597459)
12-21-2010 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:02 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
LOL
So God came out of Bethlehem Ephrathah and it is not talking about Jesus at all. Gottcha.
Good grief Dawn, go read the whole thing. Learn a little history.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:02 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:20 PM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 337 of 566 (597460)
12-21-2010 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:02 PM


Please explain
Can you explain this line by line bout how this is a prophecy and how it is fulfilled? I just don't see it.
Oh yeah.
I want some of whatever you are smoking

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:02 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:30 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 338 of 566 (597461)
12-21-2010 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:02 PM


Double post
No idea how that happened
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:02 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 851 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 339 of 566 (597465)
12-21-2010 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:02 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
There is an involvement of the current events and future events in the prophecy
the shepherds and leaders may have reference to some, then current even in Gods plan or they may have an explanation in the time of Christ
They may be a symbol of Gods power then or now. The numbers themself may be symbolic
Oh, thanks! That sure does clear that all up! Or should I say, "that may clear something up, but it beats the hell out of me what?"

"God is Santa Claus for adults."
- Mad Kallie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:02 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 340 of 566 (597466)
12-21-2010 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by jar
12-21-2010 7:07 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
So God came out of Bethlehem Ephrathah and it is not talking about Jesus at all. Gottcha.
Of course he did, since he was God born as a man. I did not say it was not talking about Jesus entirely, I said its main thrust is and only about God as a deliverer
Gottcha.
How exacally?
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by jar, posted 12-21-2010 7:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Panda, posted 12-21-2010 7:40 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 346 by jar, posted 12-21-2010 7:51 PM Dawn Bertot has replied
 Message 353 by arachnophilia, posted 12-21-2010 11:27 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 341 of 566 (597467)
12-21-2010 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Theodoric
12-21-2010 7:09 PM


Re: Please explain
"Can you explain this line by line bout how this is a prophecy and how it is fulfilled? I just don't see it.
Read the testaments as they were intended, as an illustration of God as a deliverer of his people, then you will."see it"
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2010 7:09 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2010 7:36 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 342 of 566 (597471)
12-21-2010 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:30 PM


Re: Please explain
Read the testaments as they were intended, as an illustration of God as a deliverer of his people, then you will."see it"
In other words you cannot explain any of this mumbo-jumbo.
And if I squeeze my eyes hard enough and wish hard enough I can come up with my own explanation.
I think that about covers it. Right?
Oh yeah one more question.
Who decides how "they were intended" to be read? You must know of someon in charge since there are so many variations of how people believe "they were intended" to be read. I mean you wouldn't just spout nonsense would you?
Edited by Theodoric, : Fixed are/were

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:30 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:42 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 343 of 566 (597472)
12-21-2010 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Taq
12-21-2010 7:05 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
IOW, it can mean whatever you want it to mean.
This would be true, if I wrote the books of the NT, I was inspired by God to explain the fulfillment of the words he gave the prophets
Luckly, "you" and "I" are not the ones giving the meanings, this was accomplished by the same type of prophet in the NT, that Jar relies for his explanation in the OT prophets
Its not necessary for every word or idea to be explained in full for the NT writes to explain Gods overall plan
Dawn Bertot

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Taq, posted 12-21-2010 7:05 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Taq, posted 12-22-2010 5:59 PM Dawn Bertot has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3829 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 344 of 566 (597473)
12-21-2010 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by Dawn Bertot
12-21-2010 7:20 PM


Re: How to test Dawn Bertot's writings.
Dawn writes:
jar writes:
Gottcha.
How exacally?
It is English, Dawn.
It means "I understand".
No doubt the irony will be lost on you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-21-2010 7:20 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

  
Dawn Bertot
Member (Idle past 200 days)
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


(1)
Message 345 of 566 (597474)
12-21-2010 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Theodoric
12-21-2010 7:36 PM


Re: Please explain
Who decides how "they were intended" to be read? You must know of someon in charge since there are so many variations of how people believe "they were intended" to be read. I mean you wouldn't just spout nonsense would you?
Let the scriptures be thier own best interpreter. When speaking of understanding Gods plans, he says
"Though he be a fool or a wayfaring man, he shall not err therein"
Are you sure you not trying to miss it on purpose, closing your eyes to its simplicity
From Spurgeon's "Faith's Check Book"
092-The King's Highway
"The wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein." (Isaiah 35:8)
"The way of holiness is so straight and plain that the simplest minds cannot go astray if they constantly follow it. The worldly wise have many twists and turns, and yet they make terrible blunders and generally miss their end. Worldly policy is a poor, shortsighted thing, and when men choose it as their road, it leads them over dark mountains. Gracious minds know no better than to do as the Lord bids them; but this keeps them in the King's highway and under royal protection."
Spurgeon
Dawn Bertot
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Theodoric, posted 12-21-2010 7:36 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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