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Author Topic:   Have complex human-made things been designed?
Simonster
Junior Member (Idle past 5366 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 03-10-2009


Message 65 of 85 (516714)
07-27-2009 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Smooth Operator
07-24-2009 1:12 PM


quote:
Again, this has nothing to do with intelligence's abillity to actualy make the program. This has more to do with profits. Is the program profitable or not. If it is, it's going to be released, if not, than it's not going to be released. This has nothing to do with undirected natural processes making complex objects like Windows XP.
I think this is the equivalent of natural selection. Without natural selection evolution wouldn't make much progress.
It is the same with market selection, if every product could be sold, there wouldn't be much incentive to make a better one (see communism).
quote:
Actually it was the intelligence of the programmers who built Windows XP. You are going of track here. The availability and profit-gain of a program has nothing to do with human ability to make one. If the market is not ready for some piece of software, it's not going to be made. But that doesn't mean it can't be made. On the other hand, there were no observations of nature ever doing anything as complex as Windows XP.
I agree with the first part, Windows XP was intelligently designed from existing parts by humans. And although I think there are a lot of similarities to evolution, like selection and mutation, there are also many differences.
The product and "designer", for example, is one and the same in nature. Changes between one "stable version" and the next are thus very small. Human made products on the other hand, can change dramatically between stable versions, because man made products aren't subject to selection before they are finished (ignoring exceptions for brevity's sake).
So I agree with everything you've said about human made products. But I disagree with the following:
quote:
quote:
And if it is true from human-made complex things - why should it be wrong for the natural complex things (the living organisms)?
Exactly, seems, they were all designed. The only thing we don't know is by which mechanism and how long did it take. But they were designed.
Why do you think that?
Comparison:
Human design:
Humans change existing products to form new products that are different from the old one.
Market selection weeds out the bad products, only the good remain. As a result, products get better and better.
Natural "design"
Organism change when they reproduce to form new organism that are different from the old one.
Natural selection weeds out the bad organisms, only the good remain. As a result, organism get better and better (at reproducing).
So while there are completely different mechanisms at work and a different goal, the result (change of products or organisms over time) is the same. So a natural explanation (the ToE) explains what we see without the need for a designer.
Edited by Simonster, : No reason given.
Edited by Simonster, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Smooth Operator, posted 07-24-2009 1:12 PM Smooth Operator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Smooth Operator, posted 08-03-2009 10:25 PM Simonster has not replied

  
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