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Author
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Topic: Counter-Intuitive Science
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 1 of 182 (599512)
01-08-2011 11:29 AM
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Much of science is counter-intuitive. One could talk here about relativity or quantum theory, but there are examples that are easier to grasp and equally counter-intuitive at first glance. For example, the world being round. (I can still recall my own incredulity when my mother told me about that one.) Or the fact that large stars burn through their fuel faster than small ones. What are your favorite examples?
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 41 of 182 (599949)
01-11-2011 5:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by slevesque
01-11-2011 4:52 PM
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However, I just wanna point out that this is a strawman. As far as I know, the argument isn't ''if we were even the least bit closer we'd burn up and the least bit farther away we'd freeze'' ... On this very forum:
Doubting Too writes: For example, the position of the earth vis a vis the sun. Our planet is so well placed vis a vis the sun. A few feet away from the sun (compared to where we are now) , and we all freeze to death. A few feet near the sun and we all burn. Evidently he has never asked himself why going upstairs isn't fatal.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by slevesque, posted 01-11-2011 4:52 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-11-2011 5:30 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 51 of 182 (600026)
01-11-2011 11:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by dwise1
01-11-2011 6:45 PM
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Re: Most basic physics is counter-intuitive.
Years ago I saw a sample test question from a poll measuring scientific literacy. It showed a spiral track and a marble rolling down it, about to come to the end of the spiral track whereupon it would roll off into free-fall. 3 or 4 pictures provided the possible answers. The one picked by the most respondents showed the marble falling in a spiral trajectory, having "remembered" its previous motion on the spiral track. Curvilinear Motion in the Absence of External Forces: Nave Beliefs About the Motion of Objects
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by dwise1, posted 01-11-2011 6:45 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 52 of 182 (600035)
01-12-2011 12:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by slevesque
01-11-2011 6:10 PM
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A Matter Of Inches
I'll be honest, I hadn't heard of anything like it. What there seems to be is one person sayign something stupid on FB, and everybody thinking this represents a real creationist position. Well, it's a position of real creationists.
http://www.otakara-island.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php The main reason I believe in God is because the Universe is so perfect, do you know that if the Earth was a few inches closer to the sun, or a few inches further there would be no life here? I mean, it's all so perfect, cant be a coincidence. http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2010061103... Why is our planet the only one in our solor system with life? The sky is blue with beautiful clouds, some one had to create it. If you look into our body you will find a cell, which has DNA which has a code. All that coudlnt have been out of thin air, God created us in his own image. Our planet is like in th emost perfect spot, just a few inches closer to the sun and it would be the end of us, just s few feet away and it will be ice age. All the answers are around us. Open your eyes, which he created for us to see clearly with 3D. And all the colors of the raint bow. Atualize seu navegador | Facebook The real knowledge has to do with Allah and His creations. SubhanAllah if we were just a few inches closer to the sun we would burn, likewise positioned a few inches away from it we would all freeze to death. Just completely shocking but people go on with their days as though all of this wasn't carefully designed and computed. http://www.topix.com/.../world/lesotho/TTIJTA65LGGDGI8MK/p12 Did you know hore if the earth could move just few inches closer to the sun we would all burn to death? If it could move aware by just few inches it would get so cold that we would all freeze. But that doesnt happen. Why? Do you think it just doesnt happen without the reason? No. God created them to stay like that... and nothing or nobudy can no nothing to change that http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/...e/29/webschool/fndtns01.html Science tells us that if the earth were only a few inches closer to the sun, all water would eventually vaporise, and a few inches farther, it would freeze. And those are just the people who said "a few inches closer to the sun".
It's a bit like the old ''If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys ?''. Let's go for the double:
Page not found | Writing Forums By the way, what is keeping the earth in place? A few inches closer to the sun and we'd all be meeting our maker or not. Why haven't humans evolved into another species after at least 2 thousand years if not thousands more? Why are there still monkeys walking around if human beings have surpassed their ancestors in genes? Because if I've never heard it before, and it's blatantly stupid, then chances are it wasn't ''claimed and insisted on'' by a ''parade of creationists'' ... Either that or you've lived a very sheltered life.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by slevesque, posted 01-11-2011 6:10 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 57 of 182 (600125)
01-12-2011 4:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by sfs
01-12-2011 4:38 PM
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That deleterious alleles that fix in a population take exactly as long to fix as beneficial alleles do. Now that I didn't know. Can I see the math/reasoning? Thanks.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by sfs, posted 01-12-2011 4:38 PM | | sfs has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by sfs, posted 01-12-2011 9:32 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 66 of 182 (600157)
01-12-2011 9:50 PM
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Oh, here's one that happened to me. Once I was walking towards a set of sliding doors. I noticed them open and close for a group of people walking ahead of me, but when I came to them they wouldn't open. Judging that the sensors weren't sensitive enough to detect my modest weight, I decided to leap vertically in the air in the hope that when I came down the extra force of my impact would open the doors. It did not, and couldn't have done. Why not?
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Because it employed an optical sensor and not a pressure one. Obviously I'd have been wrong if I'd been wrong about how the door worked. But I'd also have been wrong if I'd been right about how the door worked (which I was).
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by Iblis, posted 01-13-2011 4:26 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 97 of 182 (600320)
01-13-2011 11:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Panda
01-13-2011 6:44 PM
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Weight is not affected by velocity. But obviously such a device doesn't measure weight as such. If you hit a set of bathroom scales with a sledgehammer, does it just register the weight of the hammer?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Panda, posted 01-13-2011 6:44 PM | | Panda has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by Panda, posted 01-14-2011 6:03 AM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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I had better tell everyone so that the course of the thread can be resumed. I distinctly said that my leap was vertical; and I said that hoped the force with which I came down would be sufficient to open the door. But if the force with which I came down was sufficient to open the door, then so would be the equal force with which I went up, and the door would (as in fact it did) open when I left the ground, not when I struck it. This all goes to show, I think, that the simplest aspects of physics can elude the intuition of the cleverest people.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-12-2011 9:50 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 101 by Panda, posted 01-14-2011 11:49 AM | | Dr Adequate has replied | | | Message 103 by Iblis, posted 01-14-2011 1:16 PM | | Dr Adequate has replied | | | Message 110 by sfs, posted 01-14-2011 7:05 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 102 of 182 (600421)
01-14-2011 12:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Panda
01-14-2011 11:49 AM
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Judging that the sensors weren't sensitive enough to detect my modest weight, I decided to leap vertically in the air in the hope that when I came down the extra force of my impact would open the doors.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Panda, posted 01-14-2011 11:49 AM | | Panda has seen this message but not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 106 of 182 (600459)
01-14-2011 2:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 103 by Iblis
01-14-2011 1:16 PM
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This one tells us more about morbid psychology than it does about physics. Asking you questions that you can't answer is not, I think, listed in the latest edition of the DSM; but if you write to them and ask nicely perhaps they'll put it in the next one.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 103 by Iblis, posted 01-14-2011 1:16 PM | | Iblis has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by Dr Jack, posted 01-15-2011 4:16 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Counter-Intuitive Math
I could tell you many strange stories of counter-intuitive math (my favorite of all my own theorems is the one that makes everyone cry: "That can't be true") but this one has the merit of being comprehensible to everyone who can do division. The story goes (it doesn't matter if it's true) that at a certain university it was noted that in every single subject a higher proportion of the male applicants were admitted than the proportion of female applicants who were admitted. Everyone was all set for a big lawsuit when some smart alec observed that for the university as a whole a higher proportion of female applicants were admitted than male applicants. This sounds impossible. --- Now watch this. Suppose there are only two subjects taught, subject A and subject B. 10 male students apply to study subject A, and 5 get in. 10 female students apply to study subject A, and 4 get in. 10 male students apply to study subject B, and 10 get in. 20 female students apply to study subject B, and 19 get in. 23/30 > 15/20. So much for the Fallacy Of Composition.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 108 by slevesque, posted 01-14-2011 4:59 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 112 of 182 (600512)
01-14-2011 9:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 111 by Panda
01-14-2011 9:32 PM
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Re: Counter-Intuitive Math
The most intuitive explanation I can think of is this. Suppose there were a thousand doors, you pick one, and then the host opens 998 out of the 999 that you didn't pick. Is there really a 1 in 1000 chance that the door he didn't open is the one with the car behind it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Panda, posted 01-14-2011 9:32 PM | | Panda has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 113 by Panda, posted 01-14-2011 10:14 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Re: More counterintuitive Maths
1/3. The chance of it being green is 1/6. Which means that there must be a 1/2 chance of ... what? It gets eaten by raccoons before you see what color it is?
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