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Author Topic:   Politcal Compass
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 75 (601622)
01-22-2011 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Modulous
01-22-2011 5:40 AM


Re: Sharing Values
Modulous writes:
You mean the last ten thousand years? Again - you'll find shared values about the preciousness of new life with the other camp! The difference is about when 'you' acquired 'life' and 'soul'.
Again, applying the Golden Rule, I give the other life the benefit of the doubt, rather than gamble their temporal and/or eternal values on my own behalf.
Obviously, had my mom aborted me, not only would I have suffered the pain of execution, but the loss of all of the blessings of life.
My understanding is the the consensus is that the babe in the womb has some awareness of life.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2011 5:40 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Modulous, posted 01-22-2011 9:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 62 of 75 (601623)
01-22-2011 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Buzsaw
01-22-2011 8:34 AM


Re: Sharing Values
Again, applying the Golden Rule, I give the other life the benefit of the doubt, rather than gamble their temporal and/or eternal values on my own behalf.
And again, the other side doesn't think the principle of benefit of the doubt is flawed. The difference is when to start doubting (and in the case of conflicts, in which direction), not whether the benefit of the doubt should be given to life.
Obviously, had my mom aborted me, not only would I have suffered the pain of execution, but the loss of all of the blessings of life.
Not if she had aborted you before you had developed a neural system sufficient to feel pain - but I was just trying to remind you that the Golden Rule can be applied by two people and still come to different moral conclusions. You can share fundamental moral agreements with someone, but still disagree enough to be in different 'camps' on fairly big social issues.
My understanding is the the consensus is that the babe in the womb has some awareness of life.
The most contentious part of the abortion debate is discussion about blastocysts of 70cells which are not biologically aware. That they have a soul that is aware is not really at concensus status on both sides of this argument.
But once again - I was trying to show how the disagreements are not a case of a failure of those you disagree with to apply fundamental moral principles such as the Golden Rule and that the Golden Rule is where you are actually likely to find the most agreement with those on the other side. Don't use the Golden Rule to divide yourself from those that disagree with you - use it to find common ground!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Buzsaw, posted 01-22-2011 8:34 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 63 of 75 (601624)
01-22-2011 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
01-21-2011 8:31 PM


Re: Sharing Values
Regarding Abortion, I go with the Golden Rule of doing to others as I would have them do to me.
What a coincidence, so do I. And if I had a parasite living in my body that might kill me, I wouldn't want anyone else telling me what I had to do with it.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-21-2011 8:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 75 (601626)
01-22-2011 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Artemis Entreri
01-19-2011 7:08 PM


Artemis Entreri writes:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 6.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.46
I take this almost every year jus to see where i am going. It is almost where I thought it was, i used to be in the blue. I was hoping for more purple this year, but oh well.
thanks for the reminder, I was affraid everyone here would be affraid to show thier results and go into some predictable diatribe about sampling error and the flaws of the test, but it seems i was wrong about that as well, and some played along.
So this is mine:
Nice to see someone in the same area.
Edited by petrophysics1, : OK, I don't know how to fix this.I get a [x] instead of the actual graph and I can't look at the graph. My economic l/r score is 7.88, and my social/libertarian etc score is 0.10

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-19-2011 7:08 PM Artemis Entreri has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Theodoric, posted 01-22-2011 11:56 AM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 72 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-23-2011 1:00 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 65 of 75 (601630)
01-22-2011 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by petrophysics1
01-22-2011 11:17 AM


Try this
[im*]http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?e...[/im*]
Replace im* with img and it should work
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 75 (601641)
01-22-2011 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
01-21-2011 8:31 PM


Re: Sharing Values
Regarding Abortion, I go with the Golden Rule of doing to others as I would have them do to me.
One one end, yeah, I wouldn't want someone forcing me to go through with a pregnancy I didn't want to either
But I get what your sayin'. And I do think abortion is immoral.
Still, I don't think that is sufficient basis for criminalizing abortion. I think it should be legal, and that doesn't force me to view it as moral.
We all began as babes in the womb.
We also all began as a part of our mother's body. All in all, the life of the baby is a matter of the mother's choice, period. Legislation would be on that choice. I don't find a compelling reason to criminalize abortion, so I don't think it should be illegal.
Too, if she's desperate enough, she could just go engage in some heavily drunken sidewalk bellyflops, or whatever. For that, I do think there's the benefit of having it be a medical procedure that comes with the legality.
So there I have it, no reason for it to be illegal and reason for it to be legal.
In the days of the Golden Rule, thankfully, the ones responsible for bringing me to be, regarded my life and soul as precious as their own.
Lucky you, but I can imagine scenarios where it'd be better if someone did not go through with their pregnancy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 01-21-2011 8:31 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 01-22-2011 5:58 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 75 (601655)
01-22-2011 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by New Cat's Eye
01-22-2011 3:39 PM


Re: Sharing Values
Catholic Scientist writes:
One one end, yeah, I wouldn't want someone forcing me to go through with a pregnancy I didn't want to either
In most cases nobody is force into having sex. The impetus of the creation of a new live person d into pregnancy lies with the parents of the baby. Abortion is all about people refusing to be accountable for their own actions. Abortion is the execution of a real life person.
The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person. We've all been there and done that.
Catholic Scientist writes:
But I get what your sayin'. And I do think abortion is immoral.
Still, I don't think that is sufficient basis for criminalizing abortion. I think it should be legal, and that doesn't force me to view it as moral.
Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes. Why should a few inches of body mass, designating the location of the person being murdered, negate the parent of the child being held responsible for murderous and painful execution of that other person within the walls of one's body, having no means of self defense? That's why, in America, it has traditionally been illegal.
If the babe were able to cry out, it might argue in self defense, "Hey, I had no choice or legal counsel in the sentence of death pronounced upon me! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!!", as the painful instruments of execution begin to cut into the hapless, helpless and horrified baby child. "
ABE: Perhaps the fact that you consider abortion to be immoral has something to say about core values which may be relevant to our similar test results.
Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-22-2011 3:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Coragyps, posted 01-22-2011 7:50 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 70 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-22-2011 10:07 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 71 by subbie, posted 01-22-2011 11:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 68 of 75 (601666)
01-22-2011 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
01-22-2011 5:58 PM


Re: Sharing Values
Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes. Why should a few inches of body mass, designating the location of the person being murdered, negate the parent of the child being held responsible for murderous and painful execution of that other person within the walls of one's body, having no means of self defense?
Really?
If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. - Exodus 21:22
God appears to disagree with Buzsaw on this one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 01-22-2011 5:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by jar, posted 01-22-2011 7:55 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 69 of 75 (601668)
01-22-2011 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Coragyps
01-22-2011 7:50 PM


When is it a human?
There was a reason that the Hebrews waited until the eighth day to name and circumcise a baby. It was not recognized as a human or member of the tribe until then.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Coragyps, posted 01-22-2011 7:50 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 75 (601674)
01-22-2011 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
01-22-2011 5:58 PM


This isn't an abortion thread. If you want to argue about abortion, and I will, then reply to this in an appropriate existing thread.
I'll supply some meat to get started on:
My position is that abortion should be legal regardless of me considering it immoral. I assume you're disagreeing with me on the legality.
The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person.
"Personhood" is an important determiniation to make for this topic. We'll need to get that figured out.
Murder is murder; is murder, in God's eyes.
What is in God's eyes is irrelevant to the determination of the legality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 01-22-2011 5:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 71 of 75 (601675)
01-22-2011 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Buzsaw
01-22-2011 5:58 PM


Re: Sharing Values
In most cases nobody is force into having sex.....
I see. So once a woman has sex her status, by virtue of that act, regardless of anything else, is reduced to below a clump of indistinguishable cells. And don't give me any of this baby crap. You'd prohibit any termination at any stage of pregnancy, even of a blastocyst that is less than 0.2 mm in diameter.
And I agree with Catholic Scientist, I'd be delighted to take this to another thread.
Edited by subbie, : Tyop

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Buzsaw, posted 01-22-2011 5:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4228 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 72 of 75 (601710)
01-23-2011 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by petrophysics1
01-22-2011 11:17 AM


I was begining to think I was alone here.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'd be down for an abortion thread as well.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by petrophysics1, posted 01-22-2011 11:17 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Buzsaw, posted 01-23-2011 1:33 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 75 (601717)
01-23-2011 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Artemis Entreri
01-23-2011 1:00 PM


Artemis Entreri writes:
I was begining to think I was alone here.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'd be down for an abortion thread as well.
I've bumped Abortion questions...? forward. Go for it by responding to one or more of my points above or to those of others.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Artemis Entreri, posted 01-23-2011 1:00 PM Artemis Entreri has seen this message but not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 74 of 75 (614143)
05-02-2011 11:04 AM


Here I am, though I don't really care to be labeled as anything as my views are subject to change as I become dumber/smarter.
The Political Compass
Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson
Ad astra per aspera

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 75 of 75 (614254)
05-03-2011 6:17 AM


Seems my old student-protest-days freinds are right - I have shifted rightwards. I'm sure when I did this years ago it put me right down in the bottom left corner.

  
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