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Author
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Topic: Change In Egypt
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 16 of 96 (603403)
02-04-2011 11:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 14 by sfs
02-04-2011 11:47 AM
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Re: Other Way Around
On the broader question, change in Egypt will clearly be a good thing, unless it's change for the worse, in which case it won't. Mubarak is clearly about to be forced from office, unless he isn't. Right, but the only thing outsiders should be concerned with is what is good for the Egyptian people, not OUR government.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by sfs, posted 02-04-2011 11:47 AM | | sfs has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by sfs, posted 02-04-2011 12:06 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.4
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Message 17 of 96 (603404)
02-04-2011 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 13 by Taq
02-04-2011 11:45 AM
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Re: Other Way Around
Taq writes: Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are serving mainly as police. Taq writes: it is in our best interest to be the World Police because it allows us to shape world events in ways that benefit us. It seems you are confusing the term "police", usually reserved for people who's jobs are to uphold justice and peace, with "mafia hitmen". (Or you were being sarcastic. A winking smilicon would be helpful) Edited by dronester, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 11:45 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 20 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 12:00 PM | | dronestar has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 18 of 96 (603406)
02-04-2011 11:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 11 by dronestar
02-04-2011 11:38 AM
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Is it any wonder, then, why the other protests that are occurring ( Tunisia comes to mind) are getting VERY little airplay?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 11:38 AM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:07 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10081 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Re: Other Way Around
I realize that, effectively, we are. But for us to actually start seeing ourselves that way is seriously fucked. For us to think the entire rest of the world should be just like amurrica is a very self centered and egotistical....AMERICAN way of thinking.... If you define "just like amurrica" as a constitutionally bound democracy that allows for human rights with a 150 year record of stable government then yes, I think other countries would be happy to be "just like amurrica". History has shown that it is in our best interest for other countries to have stable democratic governments.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not..... Not sarcasm, just the truth.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 11:48 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10081 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 20 of 96 (603409)
02-04-2011 12:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 17 by dronestar
02-04-2011 11:51 AM
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Re: Other Way Around
It seems you are confusing the term "police", usually reserved for people who's jobs are to uphold justice and peace, with "mafia hitmen". So if our police go after drug kingpins and those looking to destabilize the government does that make our police into mafia hitmen?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 17 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 11:51 AM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:11 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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sfs
Member (Idle past 2561 days) Posts: 464 From: Cambridge, MA USA Joined: 08-27-2003
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Re: Other Way Around
hooah212002 writes:
Right, but the only thing outsiders should be concerned with is what is good for the Egyptian people, not OUR government.
That seems like an excessive generalization. Why is it true? If we had a choice between an Egyptian government that was good for its own people and was also virulently anti-American, and one that was equally good for its own people but friendlier toward us, why shouldn't we be concerned about which was in power?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 11:49 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 22 of 96 (603411)
02-04-2011 12:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by Taq
02-04-2011 11:59 AM
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Re: Other Way Around
If you define "just like amurrica" as a constitutionally bound democracy that allows for human rights with a 150 year record of stable government.. Then why the hell have we been tossing billions of dollars to Mubarak for 30 years?? You do know WHY the Egyptian people are protesting, right?
History has shown that it is in our best interest for other countries to have stable democratic governments. So you are all for shaping other people to suit YOUR interests? That's ok with you? How about what they want? How about what is best for the people of THAT country? How did that whole Iraqi thing work out? We invaded them to institute a democracy...right?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 11:59 AM | | Taq has not replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.4
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???
Hoo writes: Is it any wonder, then, why the other protests that are occurring (Tunisia comes to mind) are getting VERY little airplay? I think your post might mean that: The US prefers the status quo and would rather not have Tunisia's success spread. The US doesn't want any example of a successfull revolt to inspire other nations to follow suit. This was the biggest concern of Vietnam falling to a nationalistic leadership. The US didn't want that successful example for other client states to emulate. That is the REAL domino effect the US feared. I can imagine how fearful the US is if democracy spreads to Saudi Arabia. Then the US couldn't support/bribe the dictators there anymore. Is this what you meant?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 11:57 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 24 of 96 (603413)
02-04-2011 12:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by sfs
02-04-2011 12:06 PM
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Re: Other Way Around
If we had a choice between an Egyptian government that was good for its own people and was also virulently anti-American, and one that was equally good for its own people but friendlier toward us, why shouldn't we be concerned about which was in power? Why the dichotomy?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by sfs, posted 02-04-2011 12:06 PM | | sfs has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by sfs, posted 02-04-2011 12:32 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.4
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Message 25 of 96 (603415)
02-04-2011 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Taq
02-04-2011 12:00 PM
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Re: Other Way Around
Taq writes: So if our police go after drug kingpins and those looking to destabilize the government does that make our police into mafia hitmen? I am off-topic, but check into the US "support" of Columbia. (Another big violator-of-human-rights beneficiary of US aid, mostly military. Seems that every beneficiary of US military aid has a strong human rights violation history, don't it?). Edited by dronester, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 12:00 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 26 of 96 (603416)
02-04-2011 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by dronestar
02-04-2011 12:07 PM
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Re: ???
Not really. I meant that the only reason the US is concerned with Egypt so much is because of all the money they throw their way. I'm sure there are deeper reasons for that, but I'm not really caught up on all of it (isn't Egypt seen, by the US gov't, as some sort of ally in the Middle East: like a pawn of sorts?)
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:07 PM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 28 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:16 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 27 of 96 (603417)
02-04-2011 12:12 PM
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It's about access
The Suez Canal is still a significant international asset.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.4
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Re: ???
Hoo writes: the only reason the US is concerned with Egypt so much is because of all the money they throw their way. Well, sure, but it's what the money buys . . .
Hoo writes: (isn't Egypt seen, by the US gov't, as some sort of ally in the Middle East: like a pawn of sorts?) Yep. Good job Hooah.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 26 by hooah212002, posted 02-04-2011 12:11 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Jon
Inactive Member
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Message 29 of 96 (603419)
02-04-2011 12:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by Taq
02-04-2011 11:59 AM
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Serving Interests
History has shown that it is in our best interest for other countries to have stable democratic governments. Yet the American government routinely fights to make sure other countries do not have this 'stable democratic government'; ironically, it is in America's best interest to have a dictatorial puppet government. Stable governments are in the world's best interest; America doesn't care about the world. Jon Edited by Jon, : subtitle
Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by Taq, posted 02-04-2011 11:59 AM | | Taq has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 30 of 96 (603422)
02-04-2011 12:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 28 by dronestar
02-04-2011 12:16 PM
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Re: ???
Well, sure, but it's what the money buys . . .
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 28 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:16 PM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 31 by dronestar, posted 02-04-2011 12:24 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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