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Author Topic:   Evidence (RAZD and Petrophysics only)
Inactive Member

Message 1 of 15 (603895)
02-05-2011 7:13 PM

RAZD has proposed a topic which no one wishes to take on, that would be the atheists here, who have no evidence for their position.

Although I agree with RAZD in general, I do not in some areas.

Since what RAZD calls strong or absolute atheists are hidding behind their keyboard, I'll take him on.

RAZD, I am a #1 absolute deist. God does exist.

I do not regard my position as illogical or irrational, and I am prepared to defend that.

Yes, and that would include presenting my evidence for my position.

I only ask that if I ask a question you answer it or say you don't how to or what it means. I will respond with an explanation. I will answer all your questions in time, or admit I can not..

You do know what a koan is? My questions will be on topic even though you may not see it immediately. Please just answer them or say you can't.

I have looked for months here where the atheists could present no evidence.

As an absolute deist lets see if I can do better.

Admin and RAZD I'll go one on one in a great debate.

petrophysics aka martin granica

Edited by Admin, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by petrophysics1, posted 02-08-2011 4:58 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-08-2011 9:03 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2011 10:37 AM petrophysics1 has responded

Inactive Member

Message 2 of 15 (603896)
02-08-2011 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by petrophysics1
02-05-2011 7:13 PM

Let's wake up
Hi Admin

Are you guys asleep, on drugs, or just looking at pictures of Obama in rapture.

RAZD has agreed to this debate. I'm on go.

Can we get you to say something, anything, before the end of this century.

All my best!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by petrophysics1, posted 02-05-2011 7:13 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

Inactive Member

Message 5 of 15 (604141)
02-10-2011 10:14 AM

An intro

Please forgive my late reply. My wife just got back from doing the consulting on a Marathon well in North Dakota for the last 46 days and just came back. I actually haven't seen her since late October due to my work and her's.

I'll try and post here each day.

I thought I'd present my position in 4 parts.

Evidence, what is it.

My methods and results.

Part 3 and 4 goes to extending that and to what I found out.

I'll be back later today, to talk about evidence.

Thanks Petrophysics

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2011 10:43 AM petrophysics1 has responded

Inactive Member

Message 8 of 15 (604609)
02-13-2011 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
02-10-2011 10:37 AM

Re: definitions and parameters first
Empirical=based upon experience or experiment


These are the basic parameters that I have used in discussing this topic with others (including many atheists): do you agree with them?

No, I do not.

I come out of my house and notice a tire on my 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is flat.

I need to know what you would do. I change the tire because I have 100% confidence it is flat.

If you collect a large number of people to find out what they observe and need to read their entire peer reviewed literature before you change the tire I need to know about that. It means you have a profound psychological problem or you are playing some debate game.

Your psychological problems I can deal with, your debate games I will not deal with.

It seems to me that unless a single person can make a valid objective empirical observation of the world science is impossible.

I am a petroleum geologist. I can show someone a world wide flood did not occur. It may take me weeks or months, but I will do it without quoting or referencing another single geologist whose work I did not check. It is based on things I have actually seen and worked on. It is not based on things I’ve read about.

That would be a belief. Not a bad thing since we progress forward as a civilization based upon the work and experience of others.

So what think you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2011 10:37 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2011 9:21 PM petrophysics1 has responded

Inactive Member

Message 9 of 15 (604610)
02-13-2011 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
02-10-2011 10:43 AM

Re: An intro

Good luck on your business. I started mine in 1985 both geologic and petrophysical consulting as well as drilling my own oil and gas prospects.

Ditto on taking care of your parents or in-laws, been down that road too. My mom is 92 and still doing well, but I know about the concerns and time involved.

Take care.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2011 10:43 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Inactive Member

Message 11 of 15 (605440)
02-19-2011 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
02-13-2011 9:21 PM

Re: definitions and parameters first

You don't need to write me a Mitchner novel everytime you answer.

I've read this stuff before.

I asked a simple question. If you come outside and see your tire is flat. Do you have 100% confidence that it is?

I was trying to figure out what you were doing. Since my question was simple. Why are you telling me about all the reasons a tire can be flat? Why the whole thing about concepts and how certain you are of them?

RAZD I came to the conclusion you think God is an idea, a concept, and abstract idea.

I'll show you why I don't think that is true.

If you will empty your tea cup, and just answer my simple questions this will go much faster.

Don't think about what my questions mean, just answer them.

So RAZD are you 100% certain your tire is flat?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by RAZD, posted 02-13-2011 9:21 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2011 7:02 PM petrophysics1 has responded

Inactive Member

Message 13 of 15 (605712)
02-21-2011 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by RAZD
02-19-2011 7:02 PM

Re: definitions and parameters first

I don’t care WHY the tire is flat, just that it is.

Let me try doing this a different way.

When I was 14, that would be 47 years ago, I came out of my parent’s house and walked down the driveway. My dog was digging a hole about 10 feet from the road.

I went over there and there was no pre-existing hole. So I thought what the hell is he doing. Now I’ve known this dog for 9 years and he is a great hunter and no dummy.

So I went to the garage and got a hoe to help him dig the hole he was working on.

This dog was great. He would dig until he got tired, step back and then let me dig until I got tired. We went back and forth. We hit many tree roots, sometimes I could break them with the hoe. One time I had one about ¾” thick. I couldn’t break it, he just went into the hole and ripped it apart with his teeth., I couldn’t believe it.

RAZD all this time I didn’t know what we were doing other than digging a hole for no reason. But you understand RAZD, that would be because my tea cup was over flowing and I didn’t understand the dog knew something about the world I did not.

As we continued doing this, I come across what I think is another root. Covered in dirt, I grab it and it moves. Scared the fucking shit out of me. There is an animal at the bottom of this hole. For whatever reason, the sent of my fear, or the emotion of my fear, my dog went crazy.

He pulled a huge ground hog out of that hole, it flipped through the air, and it landed on its feet. An exchange with my dog left my dog with about a 4” cut on his left paw.

He was pissed. He grabbed it by the neck and beat it against an Oak tree, until its neck was broken and it was dead.

Never seen anything happen this fast in my life. Martial arts pros suck in comparison.

I have 100% confidence this happened.

Tell me something that happened to you in your past that you have 100% confidence in having occurred


P.S. You don’t where I’m going here, if you did we wouldn’t be having this debate.
Dump that tea cup out!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by RAZD, posted 02-19-2011 7:02 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by RAZD, posted 02-21-2011 5:43 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

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