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Author Topic:   God's Place In Evolution
goldrush
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 61
Joined: 02-08-2011


Message 46 of 190 (604870)
02-15-2011 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Taq
02-15-2011 4:39 PM


Taq writes:
When many people say they don't believe in God b/c He is "unnecessary" due to science, it takes me back to the account in Eden.
I don't believe in God because there is no evidence for the existence of God.
Also, citing mythology in support of the existence of God really isn't helping your case.
How, I have just demonstrated that the Bible does not affirm myths common during its time of writing.
So we see from all this that ancient people, no matter how ignorant of science, were in good shape as long as they were obedient to God's commands.
I guess it all depends on how you define "good shape". It wasn't until the last century that infant mortality dipped below 30%. I could go on and on about the diseases that modern medicine has cured through science, not the bible. However, I think it will fall on deaf ears.
The point of my post was not to show that the Bible is a medical/scientific textbook. By the way, if Adam had not rejected Gid's sovereignty over him to begin with, we wouldn't be sitting here with the burden of trying to eradicate disease. We have not cured all disease, BTW, so we shouldn't be so proud of ourselves. The root of sickness and death is sin, the sin that occurred in Eden. The sin that alienated mankind from his Source and Creator.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Taq, posted 02-15-2011 4:39 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 02-15-2011 4:59 PM goldrush has not replied
 Message 49 by Jon, posted 02-15-2011 5:00 PM goldrush has not replied
 Message 51 by Taq, posted 02-15-2011 5:15 PM goldrush has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 190 (604871)
02-15-2011 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldrush
02-13-2011 10:31 AM


Re: Animal & Human Knowledge Gap
goldrush writes:
Where did he receive his language, and what enabled him to develop his sense of morality and values? If it all came from animals, why don't we all still use identical language and behavior of animals? Why aren't we all like Tarzan? Monkey see, monkey do, right?
Hey Goldrush, a hearty welcome to EvC. Good job on your OP. I see you had a one rating but I fixed that for you with a well deserved fiver.
God is the only logical explanation for the huge knowledge and brain capability between brute animals and humans. Humans are truly designed after the designer's image. We have been created to communicate with our maker intelligently and to rely on him for everything.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Taq, posted 02-15-2011 5:16 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 190 (604872)
02-15-2011 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:51 PM


goldrush writes:
Taq writes:
When many people say they don't believe in God b/c He is "unnecessary" due to science, it takes me back to the account in Eden.
I don't believe in God because there is no evidence for the existence of God.
Also, citing mythology in support of the existence of God really isn't helping your case.
How, I have just demonstrated that the Bible does not affirm myths common during its time of writing.
So we see from all this that ancient people, no matter how ignorant of science, were in good shape as long as they were obedient to God's commands.
I guess it all depends on how you define "good shape". It wasn't until the last century that infant mortality dipped below 30%. I could go on and on about the diseases that modern medicine has cured through science, not the bible. However, I think it will fall on deaf ears.
The point of my post was not to show that the Bible is a medical/scientific textbook. By the way, if Adam had not rejected Gid's sovereignty over him to begin with, we wouldn't be sitting here with the burden of trying to eradicate disease. We have not cured all disease, BTW, so we shouldn't be so proud of ourselves. The root of sickness and death is sin, the sin that occurred in Eden. The sin that alienated mankind from his Source and Creator.
Again, that is simply misrepresenting what is actually written. There is nothing in the Bible Adam & Eve fabele that says disease is the result of sin or that man is alienated from God.
If you like please start a thread on that and yet again we can examine what is actually written.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 190 (604873)
02-15-2011 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:51 PM


PRATT
By the way, if Adam had not rejected Gid's sovereignty over him to begin with, we wouldn't be sitting here with the burden of trying to eradicate disease. We have not cured all disease, BTW, so we shouldn't be so proud of ourselves. The root of sickness and death is sin, the sin that occurred in Eden. The sin that alienated mankind from his Source and Creator.
Are you going to be addressing some of the previous counterarguments raised here, or are you just going to keep throwing out different and unrelated pointspoints, which, by the way, have been refuted a thousand times?
Jon
Edited by Jon, : clarity

Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple!
Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 50 of 190 (604874)
02-15-2011 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:24 PM


goldrush writes:
Through science, we have been able to discover many things about the earth, our bodies, and our health. How does the Bible compare? Though not a science textbook, Biblical references to all 3 harmonize with modern scientific discovery.
That seems to be a rather exotic way of saying that the biblical account is hopelessly wrong.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 51 of 190 (604875)
02-15-2011 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:51 PM


The point of my post was not to show that the Bible is a medical/scientific textbook.
Then what was your point as it relates to the topic?
By the way, if Adam had not rejected Gid's sovereignty over him to begin with, we wouldn't be sitting here with the burden of trying to eradicate disease.
Based on what evidence? How does that evidence relate to the topic at hand?
Should we also be talking about the mistake that Achilles' mother made when she forgot to dip is heel in the River Styx?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by goldrush, posted 02-15-2011 4:51 PM goldrush has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 52 of 190 (604876)
02-15-2011 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
02-15-2011 4:58 PM


Re: Animal & Human Knowledge Gap
God is the only logical explanation for the huge knowledge and brain capability between brute animals and humans.
Could you please spell out this logic for us? Simply asserting that something is logical does not make it logical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 02-15-2011 4:58 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 02-15-2011 11:35 PM Taq has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 53 of 190 (604877)
02-15-2011 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:24 PM


Through science, we have been able to discover many things about the earth, our bodies, and our health. How does the Bible compare?
It's a laughing-stock.
However, this seems to have little to do with the subjects raised in the OP, which you seem averse to pursuing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by goldrush, posted 02-15-2011 4:24 PM goldrush has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by goldrush, posted 02-15-2011 7:22 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 54 of 190 (604878)
02-15-2011 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:42 PM


Re: No Science there
Is this the best you can come up with? So predictable...
Well of course it's predictable. That's because it's true.
If you went around claiming that two plus two was five, it's highly predictable that you'd hear the word "four" quite a lot.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4216 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 55 of 190 (604884)
02-15-2011 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Taq
02-15-2011 5:15 PM


Should we also be talking about the mistake that Achilles' mother made when she forgot to dip is heel in the River Styx?
Heck it has the same amount of evidence, that is none.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2978 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 56 of 190 (604885)
02-15-2011 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldrush
02-13-2011 10:31 AM


It has been shown that if a modern human is not taught human language, and has void or very limited human contact/interaction (except for feeding) he will fail to speak, mature, and act more or less barbaric. Nurture has a lot to do with behavior considered civilized or "human". "Evolved", "higher" brains have little to do with what makes us human. Whatever natural "human" inclinations or potential we may be born with fail to develop if not nurtured.
But the exact same thing can be said of any primate, ape, monkey. In fact, the same can be said of most, if not all, mammals.
So you ask where did the first human get the knowledge?
But I'll ask where did the first monkey get it, or dolphin, or bat get that very same knowledge?
Why stop at humans when many, many more species down the line show this same behavior?
However, if you understood common ancestry then you would see how these traits emerged and came to be present in modern mammals, which obviously includes humans.
- Oni

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goldrush
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 61
Joined: 02-08-2011


Message 57 of 190 (604889)
02-15-2011 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Jon
02-15-2011 8:36 AM


Re: Understanding through Discussion
[qs=Jon][qs]
I feel the real reasons for our positions on whether are not there is a creator goes beyond the purely rational or intellectual sphere. I believe it has a lot to do with the way we have come to view world conditions (especially the human condition) and the way these views have impacted us emotionally- positively or negatively.
Excellent! But shouldn't this concession go in the other topic, where you claimed the intellectual path to the Creator to be purely logical and rational: 'The deduction of a personal, reasoning Creator, although not empirical, is rational.'?
Jon
Good catch Jon. But the idea behind that original post was to show how people could use rationality alone to come to the creator conclusion. This was not to say that all or most people arrive at it the conclusion purely this way, as I don't believe this happens very often, (as I revealed in this later topic). As you have said, a poster's entire view if things is not contained in one comment alone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Jon, posted 02-15-2011 8:36 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Jon, posted 02-15-2011 11:09 PM goldrush has replied

  
goldrush
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 61
Joined: 02-08-2011


Message 58 of 190 (604890)
02-15-2011 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Adequate
02-15-2011 5:31 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
Through science, we have been able to discover many things about the earth, our bodies, and our health. How does the Bible compare?
It's a laughing-stock.
However, this seems to have little to do with the subjects raised in the OP, which you seem averse to pursuing.
This later post was kinda my original idea behind the original post, kinda as an introduction. In hindsight though, I admit my original post wasn't a really great idea. And yeah I do feel adverse to persuing it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-15-2011 5:31 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Taq, posted 02-15-2011 7:51 PM goldrush has replied

  
goldrush
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 61
Joined: 02-08-2011


Message 59 of 190 (604894)
02-15-2011 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
02-15-2011 5:33 PM


Re: No Science there
Dr Adequate writes:
Is this the best you can come up with? So predictable...
Well of course it's predictable. That's because it's true.
If you went around claiming that two plus two was five, it's highly predictable that you'd hear the word "four" quite a lot.
I know this is how you see it, but I must respectfully disagree. I also apologize for responding to you the way I did. I really could have been much more mature and tactful about it. I'm sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-15-2011 5:33 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 60 of 190 (604899)
02-15-2011 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by goldrush
02-15-2011 4:24 PM


Accurate knowledge?
Let's reexamine the concept of accurate knowledge for a moment.
OK, here's one for you.
The global flood, which biblical scholars place ca. 4,350 years ago, has been shown by science to not have happened.
It is so easy to disprove the Genesis flood story that even my own archaeological research has done so.
Does this give you any doubts, or do you just ignore all of this evidence?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by goldrush, posted 02-15-2011 4:24 PM goldrush has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by goldrush, posted 02-15-2011 10:21 PM Coyote has replied

  
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