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Author
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Topic: Your EvC Debate Dream Team - Fantasy Debating
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 42 of 218 (605631)
02-21-2011 10:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 30 by slevesque
02-21-2011 1:09 AM
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Creationists are not team players
slevesque writes: I think it simply is that many creationist that come along are quickly gone because many posters here come to the table with a boatload of preconcieved notions about them.
That illustrates the difference between science and creationism. Scientists are responsible for what other scientists say. They do have to fit all of it into their own hypotheses. Creationists, on the other hand, seem to think they can each have their own crackpot "theory", picking and choosing what they like from what other creationists claim. There are strict young-earthers, there are old-earthers, there are old-earth/young-lifers.... The only consistency is the notion that science is always wrong. So it's quite reasonable for EvC members to start with a preconception of what a creationist is. It's your responsibility to distinguish yourself.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 1:09 AM | | slevesque has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 50 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 2:25 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 49 of 218 (605658)
02-21-2011 12:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by Blue Jay
02-21-2011 12:08 PM
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Re: B(luJ) Team
Bluejay writes: Now to go gloat at Ringo via PM*.
*ahem* I have other offers. 
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by Blue Jay, posted 02-21-2011 12:08 PM | | Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 56 of 218 (605695)
02-21-2011 3:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by slevesque
02-21-2011 3:43 PM
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Re: Creationists are not team players
slevesque writes: Does everyone now have to incorporate what he said into their hypotheses ?
Of course they do. They have to show why he's wrong and they're right.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 3:43 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 63 of 218 (605708)
02-21-2011 4:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 58 by slevesque
02-21-2011 3:59 PM
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Re: Creationists are not team players
slevesque writes: But then if that's what you meant, it isn't different from what creationist do with other creationist views. They 'incorporate' them by making rebutals.
The trouble is that they don't make the same rebuttals. YECs and OECs agree that evolution is wrong but they don't agree on whether or not the dating is wrong. That's a clear indication that their interpretations are not driven by the evidence.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 3:59 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 67 of 218 (605713)
02-21-2011 4:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by slevesque
02-21-2011 4:26 PM
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Re: Creationists are not team players
slevesque writes: Of course, if you use a wide definition for 'creationist', you are bound to incoporate a lot of different worldviews. This has nothing to do with creationists ''not playing a team game'' as was the original accusation.
The original accusation - mine, I believe - was specifically about creationist debators on this forum. That's what the thread is about.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 4:26 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 70 of 218 (605721)
02-21-2011 6:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by slevesque
02-21-2011 4:32 PM
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Re: Creationists are not team players
slevesque writes: Evolutionists can't agree if Lucy walked upright or not, is that's a clear indication that their interpretations are not driven by the evidence ?
You're talking about one tiny peice of evidence. I'm talking about the big picture. Creationists can't agree on the freakin' age of the earth, for God's sake.
slevesque writes: You cannot reasonably demand that, in the case of creationist, even when multiple interpretations are possible, they should all have the same concensus conclusion.
It isn't that "multiple interpretations are possible". It's that tiny tweaks of interpretations are possible. It's reasonable to disagree with the tweaks but not with the broad principles. And creationists don't even have any broad principles that they agree on.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 4:32 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 86 of 218 (605800)
02-22-2011 8:47 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Buzsaw
02-22-2011 12:05 AM
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Re: Re:Maliciously Maligning Minority Members
Buzsaw writes: ... lil' ole creation guy Buz, who single handedly kept the pack of you at bay for 35 or so pages.
It's true that you stood alone in that thread. Even the people who agree with you ideologically didn't support you. You certainly make my point about creationists not being team players. Edited by ringo, : Changed "about the historical accuracy of the Exodus account" to "ideologically".
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2011 12:05 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 91 of 218 (605807)
02-22-2011 9:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 88 by slevesque
02-22-2011 8:54 AM
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Re: Re:Maliciously Maligning Minority Members
slevesque writes: This is really your point ? That the three active creationists (and I consider myself semi-active, but still) here don't talk in the same threads ?
My point really is what I said it was, that creationists don't support each other. Whatever reasons you might have for not supporting each other is not the topic here.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by slevesque, posted 02-22-2011 8:54 AM | | slevesque has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by slevesque, posted 02-22-2011 11:04 AM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 102 of 218 (605840)
02-22-2011 12:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by slevesque
02-22-2011 11:27 AM
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Re: Re:Maliciously Maligning Minority Members
slevesque writes: I have never, ever observed a bunch of evolutionists correcting one of their own in a discussion with a creationist.
Here's an example: Message 89, in your own thread at that. Dr Adequate corrected me on a point that I made to you. (Note that I do agree with him on the broad point even though I didn't think it was necessary to make such a fine distinction in that context.)
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by slevesque, posted 02-22-2011 11:27 AM | | slevesque has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Re:Maliciously Maligning Minority Members
slevesque writes: Never said it didn't happen that an evolutionist corrects another. Notice I said ''a bunch'', implying that taz was greatly exagerating the self-correction of evolutionist between themselves.
I notice that you said, "I have never, ever observed a bunch of evolutionists correcting one of their own in a discussion with a creationist," and that's what I quoted. Your powers of observation in your own thread could use some fine-tuning.
slevesque writes: ... I can't see how someone can misconstrue that as meaning that creationists don't care if others say falshoods, and that evolutionist care about it so much more then others.
As I said early in the thread, that illustrates the difference between scientists and creationists. Scientists (and science-minded people in general) do care about sloppy terminology. They do care about poorly-written textbooks. I want to be corrected when I'm wrong (even if I don't promise to be gracious about it). It's more important to be right coming out of a discussion than going into one.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by slevesque, posted 02-22-2011 1:00 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 123 of 218 (605992)
02-23-2011 1:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Buzsaw
02-23-2011 12:48 AM
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Re: Creationist Evidences?
Buzsaw writes: For any secularist minded person to admit to even one little bit of Biblical evidence pertaining to the supernatural would mean curtains to the secularist mindset.
That's nonsense. I've told you repeatedly that I, for one, would be tickled pink to find real evidence of the Exodus or any other Biblical event. I doubt very much if any "secularist" on this board would be the least bit threatened by such evidence.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2011 12:48 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2011 10:54 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 130 of 218 (606036)
02-23-2011 1:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 127 by Buzsaw
02-23-2011 10:54 AM
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Re: Creationist Evidences?
Buzsaw writes: So you agree with the consensus them all that I've never cited one bonafide evidence, suggesting the supernatural, on this board in the past eight years.
In the Exodus thread, for example, none of your so-called "evidence" touched on the supernatural at all. As I pointed out in that thread, your fictitious "land bridge" would diminish the significance of the supernatural. What does an omnipotent God need a land bridge for? He could have marched the Israelites through the Mariana Trench just as easily as the Red Sea. This is NOT about the supernatural. It's about the same kind of evidence that we need before we can accept the existence of Bigfoot or France. Do we need a thread on "Does France Exist?" before you understand what evidence is?
Buzsaw writes: How about you? Do you agree with that consensus?
That's more-or-less the point that I'm trying to make in this thread. I recognize that there is a consensus and that the people who have come to that consensus have put a lot of study into it before drawing their conclusions - and new evidence might well modify those conclusions. It doesn't really matter whether I agree with the consensus or not. Thinking that my individual opinion is important would require the mind-boggling level of arrogance that only creationists have.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 127 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2011 10:54 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 137 of 218 (606144)
02-23-2011 10:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 136 by Buzsaw
02-23-2011 10:10 PM
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Re: Creationist Evidences?
Busaw writes: Nonspiritual people persistently expunge posted points supporting supernatural phenomena.
I repeat, your claims diminished the supernatural aspect of the account. You tried to put in fictitious land bridges where God didn't need them. The deeper the water was, the more impressive the miracle would have been but you persist in making it as shallow as you can. You can't hide behind accusations that everybody else is discounting the supernatural when you're the only one doing that.
"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 136 by Buzsaw, posted 02-23-2011 10:10 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 159 of 218 (606287)
02-24-2011 3:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 156 by Buzsaw
02-24-2011 2:47 PM
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Re: Delusional People?
Buzsaw writes: How do you think he had the expertise and equipment, with the techy equipment aboard to do the marine research that he documented?
If he documented his research, why don't you present the documentation? All you've shown is a video of a coral formation with a chariot wheel drawn on it.
You can have brevity and clarify, or you can have accuracy and detail, but you can't easily have both. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 156 by Buzsaw, posted 02-24-2011 2:47 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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