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Author Topic:   Is my rock designed?
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 1 of 219 (481243)
09-10-2008 5:55 AM


I have found a rock. Nothing special about it. Its just a rock. As far as I know anyway, I am no geologist.

Anyway, I want to figure out if this rock was designed or not.

How can I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 09-10-2008 9:30 AM BVZ has responded
 Message 6 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2008 2:36 PM BVZ has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Larni, posted 09-11-2008 8:34 AM BVZ has responded
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 09-11-2008 8:42 AM BVZ has responded
 Message 15 by ikabod, posted 09-12-2008 5:48 AM BVZ has not yet responded
 Message 23 by Syamsu, posted 09-15-2008 12:46 PM BVZ has responded
 Message 38 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 09-25-2008 6:35 AM BVZ has not yet responded
 Message 80 by se7ensnakes, posted 01-14-2009 11:32 AM BVZ has not yet responded
 Message 188 by Portillo, posted 11-24-2011 11:11 PM BVZ has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 7 of 219 (481479)
09-11-2008 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
09-10-2008 9:30 AM


Re: Why is my rock here?
First point is - how has it got mass? What exactly is responsible for it being there when all the facts suggest it shouldn't be.

I dont know. Also, I don't really care. Read the OP please.


Secondly, why is it there? This is as releveant as the reasons for it's cause WITHOUT obstructing parsimony.

Off topic. Please read the OP. I want someone who understands how ID 'theory' works to show me how I can apply it on my rock.


(Example; Why did Jack the Ripper rip? He didn't, his knife did, and it's infact Occam's razor - not Jack's, to suggest that Jack did it.)

I am not looking for a reason for the existance of the rock. I am not looking for a reason for any attribute of the rock. All I want is to use ID theory to figure out if my rock was designed or not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 09-10-2008 9:30 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 10 of 219 (481655)
09-12-2008 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Larni
09-11-2008 8:34 AM


The best thing that you could do would be to look for evidence of design.

It's just a rock. What should I be looking for?


If you can find evidence of design then you construct a test to accurately assess whether it was in fact designed.

Okay. How does ID propose I go about doing this?


Welcome to EvC, by the way

Thank you! :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Larni, posted 09-11-2008 8:34 AM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
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BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 11 of 219 (481659)
09-12-2008 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Jack
09-11-2008 8:42 AM


I haven't seen your rock, but let's say it has neat layering.

Its not an imaginary rock. It was stuck into the grooves of my shoe, and it fell out in my office.

Hold on let me check. Will the results ID theory pop out be skewed if I wash the dust off the rock?

Hold on... washing it now...

Okay. Its a black/dark brown color, with white bits in. No layers. Just bits. Does that help?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 09-11-2008 8:42 AM Dr Jack has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Jack, posted 09-12-2008 5:03 AM BVZ has responded
 Message 22 by kuresu, posted 09-15-2008 7:22 AM BVZ has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 17 of 219 (482138)
09-15-2008 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Jack
09-12-2008 5:03 AM


Can you post photos?

I can. However, I dont know how to post images on this forum.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr Jack, posted 09-12-2008 5:03 AM Dr Jack has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 21 of 219 (482157)
09-15-2008 6:03 AM


Is there an expert in ID on this forum? Could we get him in here?
Because my rock is just sitting there, whispering to me.

"Am I designed? Am I?" is sais... in my dreams... I think it hates me.


Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by cavediver, posted 09-15-2008 1:01 PM BVZ has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 30 of 219 (482334)
09-16-2008 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Syamsu
09-15-2008 12:46 PM



Below link is an abstract to the concept of design the way creationists use it.

Towards an anticipatory view of design

Your link is broken.


I think for it to be designed, it must either first exist in the future as a whole,

What... not broken? I will take good care of it I promise.


or it must be a result of informed and reasoned decisions, or the rock must be ordered according to universal language.

Excelent work! So... how do I figure our if my rock (I think I will name him Stumpie) is 'the result of informed and reasoned decisions'? It refuses to tell me, no matter how many times I ask!


Ofcouse all things are created, including your rock.

So everything is designed? So... ID works like this: Q: Is X designed? A: Yes.

What use it it then if the answer is always yes?


God is not a thing, neither are love, fear or hope things according to creationism.

Ok. Erm... Ok. So... what?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Syamsu, posted 09-15-2008 12:46 PM Syamsu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by dogrelata, posted 09-16-2008 8:21 AM BVZ has responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 32 of 219 (482365)
09-16-2008 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by dogrelata
09-16-2008 8:21 AM


Re: The god thingy
Maybe Stumpie is the only thing in the universe that is NOT designed.... maybe Stumpie IS the designer.

I mean... he is a rock that whispers things to me. He MUST be special.

Your special arent you Stumpie... yes you are... yes you are...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by dogrelata, posted 09-16-2008 8:21 AM dogrelata has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 35 of 219 (482567)
09-17-2008 1:19 AM


Okay... are there really NO ID supporters on this board who can help me figure out if a simple rock is designed or not? Come on guys. I know you are out there.

If ID 'theory' can't even be used for something as simple as this, what use is it?


Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:25 AM BVZ has responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 37 of 219 (483540)
09-23-2008 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
09-17-2008 1:25 AM


I guess this thread proves it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-17-2008 1:25 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 41 of 219 (484054)
09-26-2008 1:44 AM


I suspect that ID theory only works when you are considering complicated things that the ID proponents themselves don't understand.

The moment you consider something simple, like a rock, it stops working. Why is this? Because ID 'theory' is an argument from incredulity, and a rock offers nothing to be incredulous about.

I might be wrong though. Anyone can show how wrong I am by applying ID theory to my rock, and telling me if it was designed or not.

Also, I have seen ID proponents on this forum. Why are they not in here, explaining thier theory to me? Is it because they have nothing to teach?

They want ID in the schools... but they have nothing to teach. I for one am not surprised in the least.


Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 09-27-2008 5:43 AM BVZ has not yet responded
 Message 45 by bluegenes, posted 09-27-2008 8:18 AM BVZ has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 51 of 219 (485199)
10-06-2008 9:28 AM


Okay. ID doesn't seem to be of any use in this case. Lets try another appraoch, or another target.

I have picked up a battery. Its one of those 9V square ones. It still had some juice left, and I am currently using it in my multimeter.

So, can I use ID theory to figure out if it was designed or not?


Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-07-2008 9:21 PM BVZ has responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 60 of 219 (485400)
10-08-2008 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Bio-molecularTony
10-07-2008 9:21 PM


Re: Batteries will naturally go dead - Rock never die
Though "nature hates a vacuum (or a charge)". There seams to be this chemical cycle which "living" system use. You may find pockets of chemicals that have potential energy if they came in contact with other chemical. But in a local area for the most part everything has no charge or potential.

Batteries will naturally go dead - for there are not "closed systems" in nature (Lot2).
So to find such a charged Battery would be “made” that way.
Lemons are batteries too, but they too are made that way – genetically designed and built intelligently.

Rocks have no change and no chemical potential cycle to speak of.

Okay... thats all very interesting. But you did not answer the question. How can I use ID theory to figure out if it is designed or not. Note, I am not asking you to make an educated guess here. I am specifically asking you to use the techniques ID theory prescribes you should use, to figure out if the battery is designed or not.

Can you use ID theory please?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-07-2008 9:21 PM Bio-molecularTony has not yet responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 68 of 219 (485600)
10-10-2008 2:32 AM


Bio-molecularTony, please show me how techniques proposed by ID theory can be used on my rock/battery, or don't post in this thread.

Thank you.


Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:07 PM BVZ has responded

  
BVZ
Member (Idle past 3943 days)
Posts: 36
Joined: 08-20-2008


Message 71 of 219 (485913)
10-13-2008 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Bio-molecularTony
10-10-2008 9:07 PM


Re: Does God design rocks - NO - Not complex as life is
While that is very interesting, it does not answer my question.

Here is is again:

How can I use ID to detect design in my rock, or in my battery.

Notice how I am not asking you to use ID on anything else. For instance, I did not ask you to employ ID on anything found inside a cell. I asked you to employ ID on a rock, or on a battery. (Or both.) Please get on with it.

Please don't mention "turbines, miniature pumps, sliding clamps, complex circuits, rotary engines, and machines for copying, reading and editing digital information" or any other thing not relavent to the topic of the thread.

All I want you to do, is amploy ID on my rock, or on my battery. Can you do this or not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-10-2008 9:07 PM Bio-molecularTony has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Bio-molecularTony, posted 10-15-2008 9:15 PM BVZ has responded

  
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