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Author Topic:   Is my rock designed?
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 103 of 219 (638574)
10-23-2011 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Larni
10-23-2011 4:45 PM


Re: is my rock design
Larni writes:

Same avoidance...


I have trouble understanding why someone wouldn't just answer the OP's question.
It must be a fundamental part of ID to be able to identify designed objects.

What is going on in their heads to make them post statements like "My house builds itself" rather than posting something like "You measure its complexity using a plexiometer".

If someone asked "How do I tell what colour my car is?" I would simply post the steps required to answer this question.
I would not post "Your car paints itself."


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Larni, posted 10-23-2011 4:45 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 108 of 219 (638603)
10-24-2011 6:40 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Dawn Bertot
10-23-2011 10:25 PM


Re: is my rock design
DB writes:

I am also a creationist/IDst.

Great!

DB writes:

The best way I have found to respond to the numerous responses in various posts, is simply extract out of each one what is important and worthy of attention

And answering the OP would definitely be important and worthy of attention!

BVZ writes:

I have found a rock. Nothing special about it. Its just a rock. As far as I know anyway, I am no geologist.

Anyway, I want to figure out if this rock was designed or not.

How can I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?

Have at it!

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-23-2011 10:25 PM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by subbie, posted 10-24-2011 10:27 AM Panda has responded
 Message 111 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 10:53 AM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 110 of 219 (638628)
10-24-2011 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by subbie
10-24-2011 10:27 AM


Re: is my rock design
subbie writes:

He doesn't need to here, Panda. He's already addressed this many times in other threads.


But surely he would want the kudos of answering the question that no-one else has successfully answered in this thread?
Well, we'll see...

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by subbie, posted 10-24-2011 10:27 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 112 of 219 (638634)
10-24-2011 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by GDR
10-24-2011 10:53 AM


Re: is my rock design
GDR writes:

IMHO that isn't the right question to ask.

But ID proponents claim to be able to identify if something is designed or not.
Therefore asking them to describe how they identify if something is designed seems to be a fair request.
The OP made it reasonably clear in his posts: he is not after the answer 'Yes' or 'No' - he (and I) want to know 'How'.

GDR writes:

1/ is the process that allowed this rock to form designed or not or,
2/ more philosophically, is the process that allowed me to develop so that I perceive the rock in that form designed or not.

If we know how IDists identify if a rock is designed, then surely we can then apply the same technique to answer your questions.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 10:53 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 7:34 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 117 of 219 (638690)
10-24-2011 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by GDR
10-24-2011 7:34 PM


Re: is my rock design
GDR writes:

Don't we know how a rock is formed?

Yes. But that does not tell us how to identify if it was designed.
The OP (and I) simply want to know how IDists identify if something is designed or not.
The example of a rock is meant to be an uncomplicated test subject.

GDR writes:

We know what the contituent parts are, how they combine etc.

Yes. But that doesn't tell us if the rock was designed.
And rocks can be created on purpose by humans using the same processes as nature uses, so knowing the process still doesn't answer the question "How can I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?".

GDR writes:

How then do we apply that technigue to understand why anything that we perceive exists?

If an IDist would post that technique then maybe I could answer your question.
But currently, I do not know what their technique is and therefore cannot suggest how it could be used.

GDR writes:

I think that something you're getting at here has gone over my head. (It's crowded up there. )

It is just as likely that my explanation is lacking in clarity.

ID theory claims to be able to identify if something is designed.
The OP is simply asking for a description of how it would work, in practice, on a rock.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 7:34 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 9:06 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 119 of 219 (638692)
10-24-2011 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by GDR
10-24-2011 9:06 PM


Re: is my rock design
GDR writes:

I posted on this thread simply because I have a problem with the term "Intelligent Design". Whe I first heard the term I assumed it would be something that I would adhere to. The I find out it is really a termed coined to try and achieve a political end, and the term has been twisted into meaning somethig that is different than the one would logically assume.

When Intelligent Design is capitalised it is then just part of the political machinations of biblical literalists.

GDR writes:

My view is that evolution has the appearance of ID, and you would logically think that there is no reason for them to be mutually exclusive.

Many (most?) christians are happy to accept that evolution happens and that it was 'started' by god.
But that would be 'intelligent design' and not 'Intelligent Design'.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by GDR, posted 10-24-2011 9:06 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 132 of 219 (639713)
11-03-2011 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Dawn Bertot
11-03-2011 12:43 AM


Re: is my rock design
Fascinating...
Anyway - back to the OP - "How can I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?"

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-03-2011 12:43 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 162 of 219 (641074)
11-16-2011 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Dawn Bertot
11-16-2011 7:45 AM


Re: is my rock design
DB writes:

Im not seeing any real difference in these words

You can use Google to find out what words actually mean.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-16-2011 7:45 AM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 172 of 219 (641240)
11-18-2011 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Dawn Bertot
11-17-2011 11:19 PM


Re: The Flight Of The Frightened Rabbit
Dawn Bertot writes:

As I looked at each one of these i see and remember that i have actually answered and responded to each one

Responding is not the same as answering.
If I asked you "What is the time?" and you said "I don't understand clocks." that would be a response and not an answer to the question.

So far, your replies have only been responses.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-17-2011 11:19 PM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 179 of 219 (641766)
11-22-2011 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by SavageD
11-21-2011 11:07 PM


Re: Is my rock designed?
SavageD writes:

Seems there's no way to tell how a rock was designed

Since ID'ists claim to be able to detect design, your sarcastic comment actually undermines their position.

Is that what you intended?


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by SavageD, posted 11-21-2011 11:07 PM SavageD has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 204 of 219 (642609)
11-30-2011 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Robert Byers
11-29-2011 7:48 PM


Is the question too difficult?
RB writes:

Just to throw in my two cents in.

Maybe you could throw in a direct answer too?

How do I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?
Walk me through the steps.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Robert Byers, posted 11-29-2011 7:48 PM Robert Byers has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 209 of 219 (642749)
12-01-2011 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 206 by Robert Byers
12-01-2011 12:26 AM


Is the question too difficult?
How do I use ID theory to figure out if my rock is designed or not?
Walk me through the steps.

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Robert Byers, posted 12-01-2011 12:26 AM Robert Byers has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Robert Byers, posted 12-01-2011 7:32 PM Panda has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 213 of 219 (642810)
12-01-2011 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Robert Byers
12-01-2011 7:32 PM


Re: Is the question too difficult?
RB writes:

So processes only exist because of a creator.


Your whole argument rests on this single statement.
ID Theory is the claim that processes only exist because of a creator.
It is just a baseless assertion with no evidence to support it, and therefore should not be considered to be even slightly scientific.

Well, thanks for the answer.
There is no reason to think that processes only exist because of a creator - but at least we now know what ID 'Theory' is.

p.s.
And to make things worse: it is a circular argument.

If we were to continue along the line of questioning started with "Is my stone designed"...
Panda: "Are planets designed?"
RB: "Yes. Planets are designed by a creator."
Panda: "How do you know?"
RB: "All processes are designed by a creator."
Panda: "Is rain designed?"
RB: "Yes. Rain is designed by a creator."
Panda: "How do you know?"
RB: "All processes are designed by a creator."

The conclusion that stones, planets and rain (and all other processes) are designed by a creator is based upon the premise that all processes are designed by a creator.


If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Robert Byers, posted 12-01-2011 7:32 PM Robert Byers has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Moon-Ra, posted 12-01-2011 10:20 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
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