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Author Topic:   Is my rock designed?
SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 88 of 219 (638550)
10-23-2011 2:52 PM


is my rock design
There is no evidence or theory to suggest how anything could have been designed by an intelligent agent therefore, design does not exist. It's just imaginary, like my house, it wasn't designed...it assembled itself.

Edited by SavageD, : No reason given.

Edited by SavageD, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 3:17 PM SavageD has responded

  
SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 90 of 219 (638553)
10-23-2011 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by subbie
10-23-2011 3:17 PM


Re: is my rock design
I just said that intelligent design is imaginary...

Btw, why do you say that my comment is an "assemblage of nonsense"?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 3:17 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 3:45 PM SavageD has responded
 Message 92 by Larni, posted 10-23-2011 3:47 PM SavageD has not yet responded

  
SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 93 of 219 (638558)
10-23-2011 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by subbie
10-23-2011 3:45 PM


Re: is my rock design
Ok then, why don't you agree that a house can assemble itself?

For anyone else willing to jump into this conversation. I would like to have this conversation with subbie. Him and him alone. I cannot argue with 2 persons at on time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 3:45 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:00 PM SavageD has responded
 Message 95 by Admin, posted 10-23-2011 4:06 PM SavageD has not yet responded
 Message 96 by Theodoric, posted 10-23-2011 4:08 PM SavageD has responded

  
SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 97 of 219 (638562)
10-23-2011 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by subbie
10-23-2011 4:00 PM


Re: is my rock design
Interesting, you say that you do not agree that my house could have assembled itself because you said it was "nonsense".

...I have nothing more to say.

Edited by SavageD, : clarification


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:00 PM subbie has responded

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SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 99 of 219 (638564)
10-23-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Theodoric
10-23-2011 4:08 PM


Re: is my rock design
There was a time I came here and posted frequently, and each time I would give my reasoning as to how you could determine that something could be the product of an intelligent agent.

Each time I made a post it would seem that I would also attract "a lot of people" to my conversations. So, Whats wrong with asking to have a conversation with one person?

Regardless, I see no point in revealing why "something" could be the product of an intelligent agent...It would only fall on deaf ears.


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 102 by subbie, posted 10-23-2011 4:58 PM SavageD has not yet responded
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 Message 107 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-23-2011 10:25 PM SavageD has not yet responded

  
SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 176 of 219 (641710)
11-21-2011 11:07 PM


Is my rock designed?
Seems there's no way to tell how a rock was designed...therefore design does not exist.

If ever one should come across an alien space craft of some sort, it would only be logical to conclude that it was spat out by the sun since there would be no way to determine that it was designed...Ignorance is bliss.


Replies to this message:
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SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 180 of 219 (641846)
11-22-2011 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Larni
11-22-2011 6:06 AM


Re: Is my rock designed?
it would only be logical to conclude that it was spat out by the sun

Only if one was an idiot.

How so? If there's no way to detect intelligent design then I'm free to believe that the space craft could have come from anything.

Surely I can't say it was designed by an intelligence because there's apparently no distinguishing qualities by which one can infer design for anything.

Unless, you disagree with me?


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SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 182 of 219 (641849)
11-22-2011 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dr Adequate
11-22-2011 10:00 PM


Re: Is my rock designed?
As has been pointed out, your inability to detect design is not a universal disability.

I suppose if you yourself really have no criterion at all for detecting design, then you, personally, could believe that a spaceship was "spat out by the sun". The rest of us, however, would not.

Well then, enlighten me. How would you know that the hypothetical space ship was designed by some intelligence and not spat out by the sun?

How would you detect design?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-22-2011 10:00 PM Dr Adequate has responded

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SavageD
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 59
From: Trinbago
Joined: 04-16-2011


Message 193 of 219 (642320)
11-27-2011 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Dr Adequate
11-23-2011 12:48 AM


Re: Design Detection For Beginners
Well then, enlighten me. How would you know that the hypothetical space ship was designed by some intelligence and not spat out by the sun?

Because it's a spaceship.

Circular argument. ie You know that the hypothetical space ship was designed, because it's a spaceship.


How would you detect design?

With reference to the processes actually known to produce things.

For example, since whenever we know how spaceships (and other machinery) are produced, it turns out to involve design, we would infer design in a spaceship even if we hadn't seen it produced.

On the other hand, if we see (for example) a wombat, then since whenever we know how an organism is produced, it turns out to involve reproduction and variation without design, we would infer the same for the wombat even if we didn't see the mummy wombat giving birth to it.

And, in the case of rocks, I know how igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks are produced, and it doesn't involve design, so I should classify the rock itself as undesigned. Of course, it might have been shaped into an arrowhead or a statue or whatever, and I know that those things are designed, since whenever we are able to check, a flint arrowhead has a flint-knapper and a sculpture has a sculptor; so in that case I should identify the material as undesigned but the form as designed.

But what if (you might ask) I encounter a class of thing entirely outside of my experience? Well, in that case I should try to see if I could see one of them being produced.

Of this method in general, we may note that it involves possessing actual knowledge, that it is a straightforward application of the scientific method, and that it leads to conclusions that are true; and for these reasons it will never appeal to the ID crowd who claim to be in the business of "detecting design" --- a method that works can obviously has no allure for them. And yet it does allow me to identify a spaceship as designed while you are unable to think of any reason why it wasn't "spat out by the sun".

The entire basis for you argument seems to be that:

1) Intelligent design does in fact, exist.

2) You know that rocks are not designed because you have knowledge of how they are formed.
(Which I totally agree with...though i must state that this is just *one* way in detecting design.)

I'm however curious, if ever you were to come across an object that was built by an intelligent agent, using methods outside your knowledge base.

How would you infer a designer?

Edited by SavageD, : No reason given.

Edited by SavageD, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-23-2011 12:48 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by jar, posted 11-27-2011 4:21 PM SavageD has not yet responded
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