Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,824 Year: 4,081/9,624 Month: 952/974 Week: 279/286 Day: 0/40 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of design .... ?
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 17 of 52 (44304)
06-26-2003 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Number_ 19
06-26-2003 5:35 AM


Number_19 says:
quote:
The eyeball can't be explained by evolution because there is no way these parts could have been laying around then suddenly combine.
Um, nobody says that the eye evolved by taking a lens that was just sitting around doing nothing and sticking it in front of a retina that had no function until the rest of the eye showed up.
Instead, vision evolved from slowly building up structure. The most primitive eyes are simply photosensitive spots. There are organisms today that have just that. A little spot that has some photo-sensitive pigments in it.
Now, this isn't very sophisticated. All it will tell you is when it is bright and when it is dark. But if the alternative is absolutely no sight at all, it's a vast improvement.
So what if this photosensitive spot were in a recessed area? That would give some more directionality. You could tell when things were bright in a specific direction. Again, we still don't have a very sophisticated system, but it's better than what came before. And again, there are creatures living today whose eyes are just like this: Photosensitive spots set in recesses.
We can eventually close off this depression and we get a pinhole camera. Suddenly, we can actually focus the light. And again, there are creatures alive today with eyes just like this.
Keep slowly building up the system and eventually you end up with eyes that have irises and lenses and retinas.
For more information, see here:
Evolution: Library: Evolution of the Eye
Of course, there is a problem: If eyes were designed, why did we get the crappy model that has an inside-out retina? In mammalian eyes, the photosensitive layer is behind the nerve layer. Thus, in order to see something, light has to pass through a layer of cells. This results in a loss of acuity: You lose photons that are striking cells that don't react to them. You'll need more light and even so, you'll never get as much accuracy. Think of how fuzzy things look when looking through a piece of sheer fabric. Well, that's how your eyes actually are...you just don't notice it.
Too, by having the nerve layer in front of the photosensitive layer, the nerves have to actually pierce the photosensitive layer, thus creating a blind spot.
Cephalopoid eyes, on the other hand, don't have this problem. The photosensitive layer is in front of the optic nerve. Thus, they don't suffer from the "through gauze" effect nor do they have a blind spot.
So if eyes were designed, can I get mine returned for the newer model?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Number_ 19, posted 06-26-2003 5:35 AM Number_ 19 has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 19 of 52 (44408)
06-27-2003 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Pogo
06-26-2003 10:44 AM


Re: Eyes seem to be quite flawed
Pogo asks of me:
quote:
Hey, Rrhain; what does JWRTFM mean?
Jesus Would Read The F'in Manual.
RTFM is an old joke among tech support types.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Pogo, posted 06-26-2003 10:44 AM Pogo has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 50 of 52 (45097)
07-04-2003 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Peter
07-04-2003 4:33 AM


And if I recall correctly, if you look at the history of mousetraps, they follow an evolutionary process of adapting what came before rather than coming up with a radical new design. About the only thing "new" in mousetraps would be the use of a glue strip to fix the mouse to a single spot rather than the use of a mechanical device. There is no real difference between a trap that cages the mouse and one that snaps onto its neck...it's just a question of timing and how elaborate the mechanics are. They both function on the same principle of the mouse triggering a mechanical device to drop an object into a certain position.
So does this mean that we can now say that even "intelligent design" uses evolution?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Peter, posted 07-04-2003 4:33 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by MrHambre, posted 07-07-2003 10:09 AM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 52 by Peter, posted 07-07-2003 12:27 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024