"Thuglicans" and the Tea "Federation Party"

In other words, You cannot. Typical.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Are you clueless? The link was not broken. The video was removed for copyright reasons. Entirely different things. Also, to say it does not exist implies what, that the video does not exist. It does exist. Just not accessible from youtube. Vast difference than not existing and the implication you made by saying it did not exist. Partus sequitur ventrem is a straw man. That is what I was trying to say politely, but I see that is lost on you. Please point out what assertions you need evidence for. When I get back from vacation, I will gladly do the research to again show, as I have many times in the past, that you knowledge of American history is either nonexistent, or so colored by an agenda, that it might as well be non-existent..

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

Partus sequitur ventrem was a method of determining slave status and not a method of determining race. Slave status was never identical with race as free black people existed at all times during the colonial period.That feeling of familiarity you experience when reading Artie's posts is not deja vu.

Art seems to be implying that matrilineal descent was the normal way, and I wanted to point out that I didn't believe that was the case, and that each state differed in that determination. (Of course in reality it didn't matter, if you looked of full or mixed blood by mother or father, you were judged on that)

I don't disagree with you at all. We know that states made determinations. But I don't believe Artemis, who pretends he doesn't even know anything about race relations in the 1970s, can cite even a single example of a state using matrilineal descent to determine race. He's even wrong about his own state.And the whole thing exercise is pointless too boot.Regardless of how states did things in the 19th century, we all know how race is determined today. We self identify using any method we chose, if and when we find it necessary to make any statement at all about our race. The idea that Barrack is doing something wrong because he doesn't use some method Artemis claims was used 'back in the day' is total nonsense.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I was in the USAF in the 1950s and now an old geeser at 75, by God's grace. Mmm, somehow I missed that opposition of Jesus to the military in the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Is there a reference to it elsewhere? Mmm, but Jesus was not nice to the very religious Pharisees whose religious views differed from his. He drove them out of the Temple and called them to their face, snakes. He debated them on their religious views. Nevertheless, he loved them in that he died for their sins and suffered at their hands without resisting, asking God to forgive them, knowing not what they were doing. I've never branded all Muslims as terrorists. I've done what Jesus did by citing the fallacies of their religion. Having become knowledgeable about the Koran, the Haddith and the Sunnahs, I've argued that the terrorism comes from their scriptures which, unlike the admonition of Jesus to love one's enemies, Mohammed and his apostles admonished to fight the infidels until Islam rules the planet. Citing that is not equivalent to hatred of Muslims. It is about citing the source of the terroristic practices, systemic to the religion.The extremists are the fundamentals who practice the fundamentals in their scriptures. The moderate ones are the non-fundys who do not follow the fundamentals. The moderates are only moderate when they are in nations which allow them to be moderate. As soon as Islam reaches about 30% in a nation, the fundamentalists extremists take over, imposing Shariah true Islamic law on all of the populace as is now the case in many nations. Your implication seems to be that Buz does not love because Buz warns of the dangers of ignorance to the ultimate plans of Islam. That is not the case. It's actually the ones who fail to warn of impending danger who unwittingly endanger others. Jesus, prince of peace was the one who said he came not to bring peace, but a sword, meaning that his gospel of ultimate peace would first (abe: draw much bloodshed from violent ones who hate it).God bless you and yours, my brother. Hopefully it's not too late in life for us ole buds to edify one another a tad. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted in text.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Hi Buz Well, I guess you do have me beat. I’m just a kid of 67. I suppose now I have to call you Mr. Buz. All of the other messianic movements from the Maccabees, to Judas the Galilean right up to Simon bar Kokhba in 135 AD were seen as military leaders that were there to overthrow their oppressors, establish God as King and rebuild the temple. Read Josephus amongst all sorts of other books and you’ll get the idea. The book of Maccabees is a story with one battle after another. Jesus declares himself as Messiah but with a very different message such as this from Matthew 5.

quote:

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38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. 43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

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Jesus consistently preached that the way to peace is to love your enemy into submission. Paul understood it completely as we can see in this quote from Ephesians 6.

quote:

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10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armour of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

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Or in Matthew 26 when he tells Peter in the garden that all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. Or when he say to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.
In Luke 19 he foretells the destruction of Jerusalem because they would not recognize Him and His message.

quote:

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41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peacebut now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.

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Read over the sermon on the mount. Blessed are the meek and the peacemakers etc. Frankly it is the heart of the whole gospel message. Jesus loved his enemies, went the extra mile and turned the other cheek on the cross, and through that came out the other side of death thereby defeating it. He debated with the Pharisees and sometimes forcefully making his point. He never argued with a sword but only with words. Look at how he changed the heart of Joseph of Arimethea, and later Paul for that matter. The people he drove out of the temple were the money changers and it wasn’t because of their religious views. It would be easy to cherry pick parts of the Bible that would justify all sorts of things that neither of us would agree to including what we were discussing in that other thread. People understand terrorism and realize that a number of atrocities have been committed in the name of Islam. We also have to recognize that regardless of what you perceive the Quran as being, the vast majority of Muslims are not violent.
As I said, if we alienate this majority group they will start to more and more sympathize with the extremists. As Christians we are called to love them into the Kingdom. We are not called to drop bombs on them which only drives them further away in increasing numbers. I’m not obviously suggesting that we don’t attempt to apprehend, and if necessary kill the actual perpetrators of these heinous acts of terrorism, but that is far different than dropping bombs on Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. You took my post as an attack on you and I apologise for that. I was referring to your support of Rush and Beck and what I perceive to be their labelling and stereotyping of the Islamic faith. (I hope I’m wrong in that.)There are parts of the Quran that I find offensive but I contend that the Islamic faith is more than just the Quran, just as the Christian faith is more than just the Bible. The Islamic faith today is vastly different from the Islamic faith of the time the Quran was written just as the Christian faith is very different now than it was when the Bible was put together.
I go back to what I said before, which is if we are going to defeat terrorism we are going to have to win the hearts of the Islamic peoples. We have been given the tools to be able to do that as Paul outlines in the quote above from Ephesians.

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

That's partly why Apocrypha books are not in the canonized scriptures. They are counter to the Old Testament prophets. Jesus alone, fit's the ticket for the messianic prophecies. The scriptures of both religions articulate the fundamentals of each. The fundamentalists are the ones who ascribe to the fundamentals. Mohammed, his Quran and his apostles who wrote the Haddith and the Sunnahs, which articulate the fundamentals were all violent. Thus the fundamentalist Muslims today are the advocates of war and violence against the infidels. Jesus, on the other hand was non-violent, as were his apostles and as are the fundamentalist Christians today.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Oh Really?From what I've read, Jesus promoted Love, Forgiveness & Peace.
Hate the sin, love the sinnerMost of what I Have heard from Fundamentalist Christians is
Hate, Retribution & Violence.Hate the sin, Kill the sinner.Edited by bluescat48, : Quote (bleep) up

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

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Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

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Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

You asked the following question'
"Mmm, somehow I missed that opposition of Jesus to the military in the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Is there a reference to it elsewhere? "I make one opening remark and then give you several scriptures answering your question. You then respond to the only part that wasn't from scripture. I find it odd that you want to take the Bible literally up to the point that you don't agree with it.It does however make my point.There were many messianic movements between the years of the Maccabees and lastly Simon bar Kokhba in 135 AD. In every case, including Jesus of course, the would be messiahs were executed and always cruelly. In every case but Jesus these messianic wannabes were following the standard belief that the messiah would lead the people in battle against their oppressors, lead them to freedom, establish the rule of God and rebuild the temple.Jesus said no. The way to defeat your enemy is through the weapons of truth, mercy, justice, love, forgiveness etc. After initially abandoning the movement the disciples later became zealous in their mission after encountering a resurrected Jesus. They didn’t talk about defeating the Romans but went all over preaching Christ's message of love etc even to Rome itself.I agree absolutely that Jesus is the one true Messiah but that isn't the point. The point is what he wants of us. If we only all agreed on the fundamentals. We had Christian leaders in both the USA and Britain who seemed to have felt called to go to war in Iraq, and that God's methods weren’t either quick enough or right enough to fill the bill. Go figure.I think we should just let God be the judge of who it is that embraces the path of peace, love and forgiveness, and get on with our own mission.By the way, what is a cowboy, a horse and a coyote doing on the avitar of a guy from New York?

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Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

Information and warnings are not one and the same as hate, revenge and violence, Bluescat.Please, so as for me and others to apologize, cite where any Christian fundamentalists here at EvC have shown hate and/or advocated violence towards anyone by us.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Nations and individuals are apples and oranges. I'm not a conscientious objector, for the most part. Providentially, what our nation has done, militarily and otherwise is often beneficial to the preservation of Israel, the messianic coming kingdom of God.For the record, I have not favored our policy of occupying any Muslim nation, such as we have in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are just building up Israel's enemies. Let them fight their own wars.I apologize for misconstruing your point about the apocryphal books.As for the horse, etc, I grew up in Wyoming. My dad had a ranch lease on an Indian reservation for some years. We had horses there and we used them in fishing and elk hunting trips in the mountains. (Abe: Often, on the ranch, the sound of coyotes howling in the night would either put us to sleep after retiring or awaken us in the wee hours.)As always, BuzEdited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

US Fundamental Christianity, the kind that believes that Revelation is not about stuff that happened 1500+ years ago, that believes that Armageddon is going to happen and that a literal Second Coming is not just possible but desirable, is the single greatest threat humanity has ever faced.No force on earth poses a bigger threat today to humanity.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This is a blatant blind christophobic assertion. How so are fundamentalist Christians who attest to the fundamentals of the New Testament a threat to humanity?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.

Because they are very likely to bring about Armageddon.It is crazy folk that believe nonsense like the fantasy that is Revelation that really should scare all sane people.And of course it is not a Christophopic assertion. It is a simple statement of fact. People that think Armageddon is inevitable are just plain crazy and should never be allowed into positions of power or authority.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!