EvC Forum: What IS evidence of design? (CLOSING STATEMENTS ONLY)

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Topic: What IS evidence of design? (CLOSING STATEMENTS ONLY)

nwr

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Message 22 of 377 (607711)
03-06-2011 9:37 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by jar
03-05-2011 1:10 PM

The evidence of design - awesomeness, as in "Wow! That's awesome; Evolution is refuted."

Actually, I think that ID is taken as an a priori truth, with no need for evidence. Evidence is taken as that which you use to persuade doubters of what is obviously true. And the ID folk often use awesomness as an indicator of evidence.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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nwr

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Message 44 of 377 (607760)
03-06-2011 5:40 PM

Reply to: Message 31 by jar
03-06-2011 12:07 PM

jar writes:
So consider honeycombs, a termite mound and a birds nest.

I don't have a problem saying that those are designed. But it depends on what is meant by "design." I would consider them ad hoc designs. That is, they are built up, and adjusted as needed, but there is no explicit prior plan or blueprint.

Edited by nwr, : Fix typo (inserted word marked in red)

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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	Message 31 by jar, posted 03-06-2011 12:07 PM		jar has replied

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	Message 46 by fearandloathing, posted 03-06-2011 5:52 PM	nwr has replied
	Message 48 by Dr Jack, posted 03-06-2011 6:27 PM	nwr has replied

nwr

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From: Geneva, Illinois

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Message 56 of 377 (607782)
03-06-2011 7:42 PM

Reply to: Message 46 by fearandloathing
03-06-2011 5:52 PM

fearandloathing writes:
This in my mind seems to be the true question...what is the accepted definition of design to be used in this discusion??

Yes, I agree. There's a tendency to treat it as a black or white issue, as in "it either is designed or it isn't designed." But I think it is a bit more complex than that.

fearandloathing writes:
And your last sentence is confusing...

Sorry, that was a typo. I have fixed it.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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nwr

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Message 57 of 377 (607783)
03-06-2011 7:48 PM

Reply to: Message 48 by Dr Jack
03-06-2011 6:27 PM

Dr Jack writes:
I'm fairly sure that your ad hoc design includes the absolute majority of objects we'd consider designed through history.

The extent of planning and of ad hoc changes probably varies a lot. The religious claims are about planning by an external agent, so "design" is perhaps a misleading term.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the idea that biological organisms are designed. The development phase seems to me to be a system for self-design. But that's not the issue that concerns ID proponents.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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